Where exactly did nob bikers become broken?

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**focusedfire**

I brought this up becaue a lot of you out there feel the Biker Nobs are broken. I feel not exactly broken but there is one thing I'd change.

I want to know which rule or rules you feel are what makes Nob Bikers to much or don't make sense and how would you balance such. What rules would you propose?

I'll start of with the always 4+ cover save idiocy. The rule makes no sense. If the bikers are moving that fast where is their exhaust smoke? The rule should be when ever turbo boosting units behind, whether LOS travels through or not, recieve a cover save.

Your thoughts, Pls

edited for clarity

**Orkeosaurus**

Why don't you just get rid of the wound allocation rules?

They're a pain in the ass with or without biker nobs.

Another thing would be to only allow one warboss. What army needs two warbosses to lead it? They'd fight!

The problem isn't biker nobs being all-around too powerful, it's them becoming too powerful when it's two huge squads taken, and when wound allocation stops any of them from dying.

**DarthDiggler**

One change, Painboyz can't ride bikes. Nuff said.

**Polonius**

I was just thinking about this, and I think if I wanted to nerf Nob bikes in a tournament setting I'd simply take away the "counts as troops" rule. Many armies have ridiculously powerful but expensive units, they just generally don't also count as scoring units.

**Tacobake**

You could lose the option for Cybork bodies.

I also like the 0-1 Warboss option. Unless you are running a Special Character at the same time. So Ghazghkull could run with another Warboss.

**thehod**

Wow there is a lot of hate for orks. For an army that has been 2nd to 3rd in 4th edition, its only making up for lost time.

**warpcrafter**

Cybork Nob bikers are 50 points. Unless you're playing an Apocalypse size battle, that's quite an investment, which means that you've really got to have an exact combination of luck and skill to get the most out of them. I do agree that the moving 4+ cover save from a smoke cloud that's behind them is beyond even the normal ridiculous tone of 40K, but that is the only thing I would change.

**focusedfire**

thehod wrote:Wow there is a lot of hate for orks. For an army that has been 2nd to 3rd in 4th edition, its only making up for lost time.

Not hate. Just asking for a little less ridiculous and a lot more more common sense in the rules.

What part of moving the cover save is hating or even counter intuitive to the intent and design of the Ork army? It would encourage the charge.

**Orkeosaurus**

Well, ork bikes had the exhaust cloud rules back in the old codex too (although it was only a 5+ save then).

**focusedfire**

Didn't make sense then either.

What I suggested, in some ways, would make the entire force more powerful. Warwagons getting the save?Hello.

These are just ideas.

The latest WD seems to suggest that GW may move to codex supplements and was trying to get an idea of what they may bring.

**Sha1emade**

Just let the Imperial guard have access to them as 0-1 troop choices and call it even.

I would just get rid of the wargear options and make them streamlined. All choppas or claws. Make it so you can do a little wound manipulation but not get crazy with it. Other then that I have no problem with them as they are. The option to rape a reasonable rule like wound allocation is my only bitch with them.

**focusedfire**

Maybe just let the Tau have crisis suits in squads of 10 with the invulnerable saves, networked markerlights, stimulant injectors, command node, weapons, and counts as troops for 70 pts per model.

Just kidding, its the exhast thing that gets to me. They had a chance to create synergy in the army and instead they made the unit stand alone.

**frgsinwntr**

The issue is the wound allocation.

The only thing that needs to change is the "allocation of wounds should first be allocated to models that are wounded" before being put on other models.

The fact they need to take 10 wounds before they even worry about losing a nob most times is the hard part... and the fact they are so hard to wound makes this even tougher.

**Casper**

frgsinwntr wrote:The issue is the wound allocation.

The only thing that needs to change is the "allocation of wounds should first be allocated to models that are wounded" before being put on other models.

The fact they need to take 10 wounds before they even worry about losing a nob most times is the hard part... and the fact they are so hard to wound makes this even tougher.

Umm don't they have to remove modles that are wounded first? So if a nob is wounded don't they have to put the wound on him first (removeing whole modles rule?).

I'm fine with the way they are, however I could see cover bing 5+ like from a KFF not 4+ (perhaps changing the explanation for the cover save would make it more logical like built in KFF that only applies to the bike?).

I would not argue with them being limited to 0-1, bc why are you allowed 2 warboss's any way? All they would do was fight each other. And that makes no since.

Edited for addition.

**sourclams**

No bikers aren't broken. They're very easy to kill with a number of lists from different codices. It's a gimmick list that has to be tooled for to beat. They're no more or less powerful than land raider spam, Green Tide, Nidzilla, or Lash of Submission builds.

**focusedfire**

Even though I started this thread, I agree with sour clams. I just used the title to bring people in so I could get an idea of what people were having a problems with. To give them a place to vent and talk about rule construction. How would they balance this? Maybe instead of just taking away and limiting,instead, propose alteratives.

The orks codex is a good one and if you've read my post about the biker nob armies you know that I feel applied tactics can take this army apart without to much difficulty.

Having said that, IMHO there are a couple of the rules that do seem counter-intuitive or just don't make sense for the army(GW occassionaly does this). As I said earlier, the exhast coversave for the bikes is my pet peeve. A shooting army would love to have a squad sihlouetted in such a manner. Now the army behind is completely obscured by smoke so maybe they should get the save. And no the answer they're Orks it doesn't have to make sense doesn't cut it.

Ideas anybody?

**sourclams**

focusedfire wrote:And no the answer they're Orks it doesn't have to make sense doesn't cut it.

Actually, according to all relevant fluff, simply because Orks believe it so is indeed enough justification to "cut it". A Red Trukk goes faster, because it's Orky. Lootas work because they just do. I mean, have you seen the Deffgun model that is based around a lasgun? A strength 7 Lasgun. Just because. Okay.

And as I said before, Ork biker Nobz are fine for their points cost. The rule that causes them to become viable is wound allocation, not the smoke ability of the Orky bikes. And this rule is easily avoided with a massed S8-10 weapons list.

The army is fine, and a lot of armies that are "power builds" can still beat it. You can't just run a handful of guys and a couple heavy support choices against this or any other power list. Nob Bikerz are simply catching heat because they're the newest, flashiest thing.

**Orkeosaurus**

How is the ork biker's smoke screen less sensible than smoke launchers for vehicles?

Hey look! That Land Raider is smokey! Aarh! I can't shoot it now! Even with Ordinance weaponry!

**focusedfire**

Smoke launchers throw out a wall of smoke in front of the advancing tanks. Exhast smoke trails behind.

They stacked up abilities on the nob bikers like they were play a magik the gathering monster instead of making the unit a part of the greater hoarde thus adding to the Wwaauuggghhh.

Seems like a biker charge should be helping to lead the army into battle not to let the rest of the army hang back.

**P4NC4K3**

DarthDiggler wrote:One change, Painboyz can't ride bikes. Nuff said.

This is a valid point, how can anyone, even an Ork do surgery whilst hurtling along at breakneck speeds on a bike?

**dietrich**

Wound allocation is what puts them over the top.

The unit, tooled up, is dead hard. But, it's coming in around 650 points (530 for 9 nobz, painboy, cybork bodies, and bikes - a few klaws, big choppas, bosspole, combi-weapons). It should be a dead hard unit for that many points.

That buys what - 15 terminators? They instakill the nobz. It's a matter of having a game plan for dealing with this power build, just like Land Raider spam, dual-lash CSM, or Nidzilla.

**Saldiven**

Unfortunately, some lists have a hard time both creating a list that can avoid being tabled by Bike-nobs and still compete with any of the other quality lists out there. Check out the 6+ page thread on how Eldar beat Bike-nobs in the Tactics section.

Ironically, I think it is interesting that my "lower-tier" DE would actually do fairly well against Bike nobs; way too many S8, AP2 weapons in shooting and power weapons that always wound on 4+ in assault....

**Skinnattittar**

What's most disstressing is that no matter how much you guys want it to change, GW's past history shows that nothing will be done about it until the next Ork Codex arrives, which probably won't be for, oh, say five to eight years? How long did the last Ork Codex update take?.....

**focusedfire**

I started a thread in the news/rumors about this. The last issue of white dwarf seems to hint that they may release updates. At least for freshly released characters. They start doing that, I dunno.

**dietrich**

You can't have enough of everything to deal with every power-build. Having a game plan can save you though. And often, what works well for one situation (say attack bikes with multimeltas for tank-hunting) can work well in another (same attack bikes for nob biker hunting).

**focusedfire**

Wisely spoken dietrich