Thunder Hammer Vs. Soul Grinder\Defiler

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**Blunt Force Trauma**

Hello,

Here is the scenario. Soul Grinder is attacked by TH/SS Terminators. Damage result is 3 -2 for glancing = shaken. Soul Grinder ignores shaken and stunned results. Does the T-hammer's ability still go off? Does the Soul Grinder Strike at Initiative 1 next round?

**Chimera_Calvin**

Yes

The Soul Grinder ignores the effect of the hit, not the fact that it happened at all.
The ability of a TH to reduce an enemies initiative to 1 is not mentioned as something that a Grinder ignores, therefore he has to suffer the effect.

**Webbe**

No it doesn't.
Thunder hammers reduce initiative to 1 if they cause an unsaved wound.
It's not possible to cause an unsaved wound on a vehicle.

Walkers also have initiative and are therefore immune to both Thunder hammer special effects. This makes Thunder hammers no diffrent than Power fists against walkers.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Good call, Webbe. I concur. Any Walker wuld fall under this catagory of having an I value, but not taking wounds.

**Webbe**

As a minor sidenote I'd like to add (after a little research) that DA, BT and DH Thunder Hammers still shake vehicles with initiative as they have their own description.
It only matters if the walker survive the combat though as shaken doesn't affect a walker's CC capabilities.

**Saldiven**

Could a precedent be made that a roll on the damage chart counts as a wound against a walker? That is how combat resolution is resolved against a walker, since you don't count actual "wounds" against a vehicle....

**Blunt Force Trauma**

Webbe wrote:No it doesn't.
Thunder hammers reduce initiative to 1 if they cause an unsaved wound.
It's not possible to cause an unsaved wound on a vehicle.

Walkers also have initiative and are therefore immune to both Thunder hammer special effects. This makes Thunder hammers no diffrent than Power fists against walkers.

Do you know where I can find the text of the thunder hammer? The player in question stated to me that he thinks it should work against a whole unit not a single model. I disagree but do not have my rule book with me at work.

**Webbe**

Blunt Force Trauma wrote:Do you know where I can find the text of the thunder hammer? The player in question stated to me that he thinks it should work against a whole unit not a single model. I disagree but do not have my rule book with me at work.

Rulebook, page 42, CLOSE COMBAT WEAPONS wrote:
Thunder hammers
Thunder hammers release a tremendous blast of energy
when they strike. A thunder hammer uses the same
rules as a power fist. In addition, all models that suffer
an unsaved wound from a thunder hammer and are
not killed will be knocked reeling, reducing their
Initiative to a value of 1 until the end of the next
player’s turn. Against vehicles with no Initiative value,
whenever a thunder hammer inflicts any damage result,
it also inflicts a crew shaken result (see page 61).

Note that the DA, BT and DH codices have their own rules but they are the same apart from that the extra shaken result affect all vehicles, regardless if they have initiative or not.

**Blunt Force Trauma**

Thanks for that. Walkers do not have wounds. So the Thunder hammer would be just like a powerfist right? Because that is the RAW?

**SlaveToDorkness**

Yes.

Could a precedent be made that a roll on the damage chart counts as a wound against a walker? That is how combat resolution is resolved against a walker, since you don't count actual "wounds" against a vehicle....

BRB pg 73 6th paragraph:

Each roll made on the Vehicle Damage table against a walker counts as a single wound for the purposes of working out who won the combat.

(emphasis mine) this sounds like its only for that purpose, not any other.

**Blunt Force Trauma**

Case Closed. Thanks Nurgleboy77

**Black Blow Fly**

Case closed and Marneus can reroll failed armor pen/glance against armor!!!

G

**Regwon**

Green Blow Fly wrote:Case closed and Marneus can reroll failed armor pen/glance against armor!!!

G

Have you lost the ability to read?

Rolls on the vehicle damage table are only counted as wounds for the purposes of combat resolution. You have still made to roll to wound against a model so you cannot re-roll it.

**SlaveToDorkness**

GBF in the words of David Allen Greer (Chocolate News)- "Have you lost yo Damn Mind?!!"

Or in your own words "put down the crackpipe!!!"

**Alpharius**

Blunt Force Trauma wrote:Thanks for that. Walkers do not have wounds. So the Thunder hammer would be just like a powerfist right? Because that is the RAW?

Some walkers/dreradnoughts actually do!

Or is the Eldar Dreadnought 'just' a Monstrous Creature these days?

**Axyl**

Alpharius wrote:
Blunt Force Trauma wrote:Thanks for that. Walkers do not have wounds. So the Thunder hammer would be just like a powerfist right? Because that is the RAW?

Some walkers/dreradnoughts actually do!

Or is the Eldar Dreadnought 'just' a Monstrous Creature these days?

It is just a monstrous creature.... Just cause it looks like a walker doesn't mean it is a vehicle.

**Black Blow Fly**

* koff koff *