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I am thinking of turning one 30 mob of boys to ´ard boys, but the 4+ save doesnt come cheap. 5p per model and the model itself is 6p. I can do loads of fun with those points.
Since most weapons go staright throuh the orc armor (6+ save, too many weapons have AP5 and lower.....)without any armor save it could be nice to have one mobs that actually gets all the way up to the terminators in one piece.

/Martin

Generally, no. The armour upgrade costs way too much. You will be better of just taking twice as many boyz (well almost twice as many).

Is the 4+ save all you get for those points? If so, it doesn't seem worth it considering how many ways there are to get cover saves now, including the aforementioned extra Boys.

Against a bolter equivalent weapon:

10 Boyz: 60 pts

6 'Ard Boyz: 60 pts

6 wounds inflicted

6 Boyz die, 4 remain

3 'Ard Boyz die, 3 remain

Okay, so paying for the armor upgrade, we still have fewer models left after casualty resolution than if we just had taken regular Boyz.

Against a heavy bolter equivalent weapon:

6 wounds inflicted

6 Boyz die, 4 remain

6 'Ard Boyz die, 0 remain

And as you factor in things like cover saves, bad luck with dice, and weapons with AP of 4 or lower, things just get worse for the 'Ard Boyz. The only time they do decently well is against flamers or opponents with higher initiative and no power weapon. In almost all scenarios, it's just plain better to have more bodies.

Just do the math: 4 points is 66% of the cost of the model, but only increases its survivability by 50% in favorable circumstances.

Foot ork armies with no KFFs....

30 ard boys + mad dok grotsnik...

stretch em out in front of your other boys. They are hard to kill... they won't be getting a 4+ cover so that 4+ armor is valuable for shooting. It invalidates the flamer, bolter drill, dragonfire rounds, frag missiles, mortars, etc. it tarpits assault units that aren't entirely power weaponed, and makes them win assaults by larger margins against more mediocre units.

But, taking mad dok grotsnik out of the equation, as sourclams has pointed out, doesn't really make them look that good.

I think the concept to remember is this. If you want a unit to do something special. if it has a special job to perform, then it is feasible that you would make that unit a ard boys unit.

Outside of an enormous bullet catcher screen with FNP, then nobs + warboss would do most of the other things you could think of. Like ride in a battlewagon or a trukk, or run behind a screen and be a foot assault unit.

Grostnik or a KFF mek are better upgrades for a full unit of footsloggers. yes, they're really HQs, but the idea is the same.

I can see taking the 'eavy armor on a unit of trukk boyz. You're looking at only 48 points, and it's a small unit, so more important to keep them alive.

Large mob probably not - 11 w/ Nob in a Trukk is worth it. If you use them and a few other things like stormboyz, bikes or kommandos to tar pit enemy units till the rest of the boyz make it into krumping distance.

maybe just 20 grots for 60p is better then, at least cheaper... : )

I have 15 'ard shooter boyz in my list, this gives me a slightly survivable mob to hang back and hold objectives. I wouldn't bother with armour on slugga boyz though...

I just wouldn't bother with the slugga boyz

Spellbound wrote:I just wouldn't bother with the slugga boyz

30 boyz = 180 points = 120 attacks on the charge!

Wakinglimb wrote:

Spellbound wrote:I just wouldn't bother with the slugga boyz

30 boyz = 180 points = 120 attacks on the charge!

If all 30 boyz make it into combat and find a friend within 2" to beat on. Most likely about 10 of those 30 will actually get to hit anything. The rest are just ablative wounds to deliver there 9 other friends and the nobs Pklaw.

I often take 'ard boyz, and always wish I'd spent the points elsewhere.

But that's because I never seem to be able to roll 4s and 5s for saves. I can roll s though !

mine do great but I only run 18-20 and I stick them in a BW usually with a WB and a KFF BM or a warlord when Im feeling cheeky. walking the 4+ is so-so in cc the 4+ is a life saver. I have seen 30 shoota ard boys they did ok but over all I was unimpressed.

I think there's a lot of flawed (or at least one-sided) logic in this thread. For example, yes 6 boys reduced to 3 is less than 10 reduced to 4, but what if you've got two 20-30 boy mobs next to each other, one with regular armor, and one with 'eavy armor? Who's going to eat the bolters? What if you take two turns of shooting, or starts getting blasted or flamered?

And sure you can get cover for free, but one squad has to be in front, so maybe it could be worth it for that one squad, and let it give cover to your others.

4+ armor results in 1 of 3 things for you:

1. The enemy has to shoot "real" guns at you in order to kill you. There isn't a single basic trooper gun in the game that is AP 4 or lower, and there's only going to be a few heavy bolter type weapons in any given list.

2. The enemy has to commit significant dakka to make you roll lots of saves in order to kill you.

3. You live

Sometimes you can, if playing properly, force the enemy's tactical hand with 4+ armor in a way that you cannot with 5+ or 6+.

In addition, it makes you a hell of a lot tougher in CC. There aren't that many power weapons, usually 1 in a squad. 4+ armor really helps here. There's also a lot of nasty blast/big blast/template weapons that are AP 5, many of which can ignore cover. I'm looking at you, flamer.

While it is certainly true that a heavy bolter can kill your boys, you MUST look into the context of your army to see what your opponent would RATHER be shooting at besides your 6 point boy. He might have a lot of bolters, but chances are there's only a couple of heavy bolters and he has to decide where this precious fire goes. If the answer is "not much else" then don't buy the armor unless you want the CC staying power. If you've got lots of juicier targets for a heavy bolter, then maybe it's worth it.

It's not for all situations. Avoid hellhounds like the plauge. But it is certainly not an auto-fail as some here would suggest.

YMMV,

Rmeju

Wakinglimb wrote:

Spellbound wrote:I just wouldn't bother with the slugga boyz

30 boyz = 180 points = 120 attacks on the charge!

30 boyz at 18" do....nothing.
30 boyz at 12" fire 30 shots, hit 10, wound 5.
30 boyz at 6" fire 30 shots, charge, get 120 attacks.

30 shoota boyz at 18" shoot 60 shots
30 shoota boyz at 12" shoot 60 shots
30 shoota boyz at 6" shoot 60 shots, charge, get 90 attacks.

Yes of course slugga boyz can run, then the next turn waagh and probably make it to assault range, but if the enemy is moving back that may not always be possible. Shoota boyz can reach out and touch at range, and the added damage on the way in more than makes up for just 30 lost hth attacks. If slugga boyz still had choppa rules [no better than 4+ armour] that'd be different, but everyone just has ccw now.

Or you get another unit of boys and interloop the units giving everyone the 4+ coversaves. (if you play hardball)

I am leaning towards the possibility to use a squad of 20 grots to get the cover save... its much cheaper and works against any low AP. And if you´re lucky they survive 2 rounds and you can move them to cover another squad a last time before they run out...

The point of 'Ard Boyz is to get a good save in CC, so have 20 mounted in a battlewagon and speed into assault, you wont lose anywhere near as many, i have seen them slaughter heaps in CC and lose almost none