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Two quick questions:
-(I had heard this somewhere) If you embark in the beginning of a turn, can you move cruising speed as well?
-Also, if a vehicle is killed while moving cruising speed, can the people inside still try to disembark the destroyed vehicle?

(I can't remember where I heard these, but I could use some clarification)

fro,m what i recall reading (No book at hand) even if the squad move then the vehicle could move as well, up to cruising speed. But they could not disembark until the next move phase. as to the 2nd question I'm not sure. hth

thanks for the quick reply...

these "rules" that I thought are probably both wrong anyways

The rules you are thinking of may be going "flat out"
you cannot embark or disembark a vehicle going flat out.

oh yeah, that's what I meant, flat out, sorry....what part of the rulebook says that (just to read it)

Only Fast vehicles can go "Flat Out." See pg. 70, under "Fast Transport Vehicles."

Eight Ball wrote:Two quick questions:
-(I had heard this somewhere) If you embark in the beginning of a turn, can you move cruising speed as well?
-Also, if a vehicle is killed while moving cruising speed, can the people inside still try to disembark the destroyed vehicle?

(I can't remember where I heard these, but I could use some clarification)

1) If the vehicle hasn't moved yet, and you can get the squad (all of it) within 2 inches of the hatch, you can hop in, and the vehicle can move just as it would any other time.
2) If a vehicle is destroyed, follow page 67. Effects of damage results on passengers. To cut it short, if a vehicle is wrecked or explodes, you are forced to disembark, and apply damage/pin checks applicable on page 67. The squad never just "dies" because of the vehicle moving a certain speed and getting shot down, unless the enemy blocks of the hatches and the squad cannot be placed on the table (for info on this process, the first paragraph on the left hand side of page 67 will answer it for you, under disembarking).

If you move flat out, you cannot disembark (fast transports) voluntarily. For example, I can move my rhino 12 inches and disembark and shoot. I cannot move my wave serpent 18-24 inches and get out, passengers only get to disembark when the transport moves 12 or less. However, if you're blown up, you still get out as per page 67.

targetawg wrote:
If you move flat out, you cannot disembark (fast transports) voluntarily. For example, I can move my rhino 12 inches and disembark and shoot. I cannot move my wave serpent 18-24 inches and get out, passengers only get to disembark when the transport moves 12 or less. However, if you're blown up, you still get out as per page 67.

The rules actually don't say that for moving flat-out (nothing about them not being able to disembark in-volunatrily). They simply say the unit cannot disembark on a turn (which is a player turn) that the vehicle has moved or will be moving flat-out.

Therefore, in the rare case where a fast vehicle does get destroyed in the same player turn it is moving flat-out (by ramming for example) by the RAW the models onboard are not allowed to disembark and therefore are indeed destroyed.

Really? Wow..I never read it that way, but I guess I get what you're saying.

I suppose my eldar skimmers may slow down in the future..

Of note here is that it says only that they cannot embark/disembark if the vehicle moved flat out "In that movement phase", it suggests to me that it would exclusively apply only to the movement phase although I can't think of many ways to destroy a vehicle moving flat out in your turn other than the movement phase.

It gives indesputable support to the fact that this is merely a player turn though, meaning being shot during the opponent's turn would not suffer from the issue

targetawg wrote:

Eight Ball wrote:Two quick questions:
-(I had heard this somewhere) If you embark in the beginning of a turn, can you move cruising speed as well?
-Also, if a vehicle is killed while moving cruising speed, can the people inside still try to disembark the destroyed vehicle?

(I can't remember where I heard these, but I could use some clarification)

1) If the vehicle hasn't moved yet, and you can get the squad (all of it) within 2 inches of the hatch, you can hop in, and the vehicle can move just as it would any other time.
2) If a vehicle is destroyed, follow page 67. Effects of damage results on passengers. To cut it short, if a vehicle is wrecked or explodes, you are forced to disembark, and apply damage/pin checks applicable on page 67. The squad never just "dies" because of the vehicle moving a certain speed and getting shot down, unless the enemy blocks of the hatches and the squad cannot be placed on the table (for info on this process, the first paragraph on the left hand side of page 67 will answer it for you, under disembarking).

If you move flat out, you cannot disembark (fast transports) voluntarily. For example, I can move my rhino 12 inches and disembark and shoot. I cannot move my wave serpent 18-24 inches and get out, passengers only get to disembark when the transport moves 12 or less. However, if you're blown up, you still get out as per page 67.

Normally I think this set of rules is one of the least ambiguous and well set up rules GW has released so far.

However, in this case GW could of done a little better.

On page. 70 for Fast Vehicles, last paragraph talks about fast transports. In it are the restrictions for vehicles that move 'flat out'. Anyways, it says, "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase."

So, there is your answer. Moving Flat out also affects embarking too. So if you embark, you can only go cruising speed that turn.

yakface wrote:The rules actually don't say that for moving flat-out (nothing about them not being able to disembark in-volunatrily). They simply say the unit cannot disembark on a turn (which is a player turn) that the vehicle has moved or will be moving flat-out.

Therefore, in the rare case where a fast vehicle does get destroyed in the same player turn it is moving flat-out (by ramming for example) by the RAW the models onboard are not allowed to disembark and therefore are indeed destroyed.

I beg to differ slightly with your interpretation here Yakface. To me the section Fast Transport Vehicles reads that you may not embark or disembark during the Movement phase. So while I agree with your bit about ramming, this would allow for a disembarktation if for example during the shooting phase a template weapon scatters ontop of your vehicle that moved flat out and destroys it.

budro wrote:I beg to differ slightly with your interpretation here Yakface. To me the section Fast Transport Vehicles reads that you may not embark or disembark during the Movement phase. So while I agree with your bit about ramming, this would allow for a disembarktation if for example during the shooting phase a template weapon scatters ontop of your vehicle that moved flat out and destroys it.

As I mentioned earlier, there is an implication that it means merely the movement phase but could just as easily apply to the whole turn within which that phase occurs, It's not particularly definitive.

yakface wrote:

targetawg wrote:
If you move flat out, you cannot disembark (fast transports) voluntarily. For example, I can move my rhino 12 inches and disembark and shoot. I cannot move my wave serpent 18-24 inches and get out, passengers only get to disembark when the transport moves 12 or less. However, if you're blown up, you still get out as per page 67.

The rules actually don't say that for moving flat-out (nothing about them not being able to disembark in-volunatrily). They simply say the unit cannot disembark on a turn (which is a player turn) that the vehicle has moved or will be moving flat-out.

Therefore, in the rare case where a fast vehicle does get destroyed in the same player turn it is moving flat-out (by ramming for example) by the RAW the models onboard are not allowed to disembark and therefore are indeed destroyed.

So what situation would this actually apply in? For example: If I have a Raider w/ a DE squad mounted in it, then choose to ram another vehicle (which consequently destroys my own Raider) then the squad would also be destroyed? I could agree w/ that given the RAW, though I can't think why I would ever do that w a Raider full of troops! Is there another situation like this that I may be missing?

actually DE Raiders aren't tanks, so they can't tank shock or ram.

But you are correct, Ork Trukks with rams are probably the most common occurance that this might happen. When the trukk rams it will most likely be destroyed.

airmang wrote:actually DE Raiders aren't tanks, so they can't tank shock or ram.

But you are correct, Ork Trukks with rams are probably the most common occurance that this might happen. When the trukk rams it will most likely be destroyed.

I agree w/ that since DE Raiders do not have the 'tank' descriptor and I don't take 'torture amps' so there's no reason to go that route. I also can not think of a situation where my Raider (with embarked squad) moving Flat-out would be able to be destroyed in my own movement phase, and lose the squad. Hmm, difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain suddenly comes to mind... But even in this case my squad could make an 'emergency disembarkation'.

Rymafyr wrote:Hmm, difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain suddenly comes to mind... But even in this case my squad could make an 'emergency disembarkation'.

Nope. If you flat out a skimmer into or out of dangerous terrain and fail the test it is destroyed. Any embarked troops are also destroyed.
Emergency disembarkation can only be used if you could disembark in the first place but you are blocked by models or impassable terrain.

Webbe wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:Hmm, difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain suddenly comes to mind... But even in this case my squad could make an 'emergency disembarkation'.

Nope. If you flat out a skimmer into or out of dangerous terrain and fail the test it is destroyed. Any embarked troops are also destroyed.
Emergency disembarkation can only be used if you could disembark in the first place but you are blocked by models or impassable terrain.

I can see why that is...since emergency disembarking can only take place if you were able to disembark. So then would I be right to assume, using the previous example of the DE Raider ending a move in Difficult/Dangerous/Impassable terrain at 'cruising' speed and failing, that the squad would be able to emergency disembark? (Not that I normally end movement like this anyway). What if my Raiders move 24" (Flat-out) ending their move in clear terrain but either get wrecked or explode due to enemy fire; Is the squad destroyed at that point? Why such an effect has to be dug out of the rules instead of being explicity stated is amazing to me. I'll withhold any comments on GW's ability to write rules. I'd really like to make sure there's nothing that I'm missing in using my Raiders and while I don't recall ever going flat-out and ending in terrain, I'd hate to be missing something I am doing on a regular basis.

Rymafyr wrote:

Webbe wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:Hmm, difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain suddenly comes to mind... But even in this case my squad could make an 'emergency disembarkation'.

Nope. If you flat out a skimmer into or out of dangerous terrain and fail the test it is destroyed. Any embarked troops are also destroyed.
Emergency disembarkation can only be used if you could disembark in the first place but you are blocked by models or impassable terrain.

I can see why that is...since emergency disembarking can only take place if you were able to disembark. So then would I be right to assume, using the previous example of the DE Raider ending a move in Difficult/Dangerous/Impassable terrain at 'cruising' speed and failing, that the squad would be able to emergency disembark? (Not that I normally end movement like this anyway). What if my Raiders move 24" (Flat-out) ending their move in clear terrain but either get wrecked or explode due to enemy fire; Is the squad destroyed at that point? Why such an effect has to be dug out of the rules instead of being explicity stated is amazing to me. I'll withhold any comments on GW's ability to write rules. I'd really like to make sure there's nothing that I'm missing in using my Raiders and while I don't recall ever going flat-out and ending in terrain, I'd hate to be missing something I am doing on a regular basis.

Dangerous terrain crashes at "Cruising" speed: no problem. The rules are specific to moving "Flat Out."

Destruction from enemy fire after moving Flat Out: no problem. The rules limit the "no disembarking" to the movement phase in which you moved Flat Out, and the enemy doesn't usually get to shoot during your movement phase (except, as previously discussed, during "Death or Glory").

Yes, it's only if you are destroyed in your own movement phase while moving flat out you are in danger for that sort of thing to happen.

Good, cause I like rushing my Raiders across the board, having them popped like pinata's and having all my wonderfull DE Candies ready to assault. If they don't get pinned OFC.

One way to kill your own skimmer is moving flat out into terrain, getting immobilized, and crashing and burning.
So don't take your raiders off roading... not that they are ever really "on roading"

airmang wrote:But you are correct, Ork Trukks with rams are probably the most common occurance that this might happen. When the trukk rams it will most likely be destroyed.

However, when an Ork Trukk is Wrecked or Explodes, it doesn't use the rulebook rules but instead its own Ramshackle rule. Since the Ramshackle rule includes instructions on what to do with the passengers (they get to disembark, and usually take very little damage, regardless of how fast the Trukk was moving) the rulebook restriction on disembarking after moving Flat Out doesn't apply.

That said, I'm not convinced that Ork Trukks with a Ram are able to ram, especially considering the video floating around of Phil Kelly saying exactly that...

Minefields (if there are even armies still around that can fire them) would be another case where a vehicle might be destroyed on its own movement phase, without having to ram. Also, a skimmer that ends its move in dangerous terrain may be immobilised, and if it has moved Flat Out that turn it will be destroyed instead (unless "in its last turn" is read literally to exclude anything that happened in the current turn).

However, when an Ork Trukk is Wrecked or Explodes, it doesn't use the rulebook rules but instead its own Ramshackle rule. Since the Ramshackle rule includes instructions on what to do with the passengers (they get to disembark, and usually take very little damage, regardless of how fast the Trukk was moving) the rulebook restriction on disembarking after moving Flat Out doesn't apply.

the ramshackle rules over ride the normal 'destroyed' results, it does not over ride the Flat Out restrictions.

coredump wrote:

However, when an Ork Trukk is Wrecked or Explodes, it doesn't use the rulebook rules but instead its own Ramshackle rule. Since the Ramshackle rule includes instructions on what to do with the passengers (they get to disembark, and usually take very little damage, regardless of how fast the Trukk was moving) the rulebook restriction on disembarking after moving Flat Out doesn't apply.

the ramshackle rules over ride the normal 'destroyed' results, it does not over ride the Flat Out restrictions.

I think the Ramshackle "must disembark"-rule overrules the "may not disembark"-rule for flat out moving transports. Codex trump rulebook and all that.

It has nothing to do with codex>Rulebook. it has to do with what rules are being used at the time.

When you destroy a vehicle, there are rules in the BRB that define what happens, and what happens to the passengers. *Those* are the rules that ramshackle overrides.
There are also rules in the BRB that state when you can/cannot disembark... ramshakle has no effect on those.

Does the wording for the destroyed transport say that models dis-embark? I thought it said something to the effect of "placed".

coredump wrote:It has nothing to do with codex>Rulebook. it has to do with what rules are being used at the time.

The rules being used at the time are the 5th edition rulebook and the ork codex.

coredump wrote:When you destroy a vehicle, there are rules in the BRB that define what happens, and what happens to the passengers. *Those* are the rules that ramshackle overrides.
There are also rules in the BRB that state when you can/cannot disembark... ramshakle has no effect on those.

What part of the following do you not get?

pg 41 ork codex wrote:Kaboom! ... passengers must disembark and ... 5-6 Kerrunch! ... passengers take no damage but must immediately disembark...

There is a general rule in the BRB that says you may not disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved Flat-out in that Movement phase. There are specific rules in the ork codex which tell you that you MUST disembark. Specific over-rides general.