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Hi, i play chaos and I field a deadly assaulting khorne army. I have decided I want to start a second army using a tzeentch theme, but im having second thoughts I thought maybe I could get some feedback. Due to there massive point cost I was wondering are thousand sons really worth it?

Short answer: no.

Long answer: Thousands sons are good for their low AP bolter fire and their slow and purposeful allowing them to move and shoot 24 inches or double tap their bolters. They also get to field a lot of psychic powers. The bad part? Everything has cover anyway, so the low AP bolter fire is meaningless. A lot of people run anti-psyker measures now due to the prevalence of very effective psychic abilities like Lash of Submission.

If you really want to start a Tzeentch themed army have a look at the Daemons Codex. It will help expand your horizons to another army and also give you a chance to try your hand at more complicated conversions because some of the models don't exist for Tzeentch Chaos Demons.

thanks for the feedback, what demons would you recommend from the codex? and can you cross a chaos army with a demons army and still legally play it in GW tournaments?

thedarkside69 wrote:thanks for the feedback, what demons would you recommend from the codex? and can you cross a chaos army with a demons army and still legally play it in GW tournaments?

no they are separate codecies, just as IG and Space Marines cant be used in the same army neither can CSM and Demons.

There are lots of tzneetch themed demons that you can play around with. Go down to your FLGS and see if you can peruse a codex

damn... I was hoping to start up a thousand sons army. Ive always loved their models & fluff, & you never see thousand son armies (& now I know why)

are they really that bad? theres no way you could make them semi-decent if you were a really good player? or are the rules so against you theyre just not worth it?

Well, they are semi-decent.
Just start with two squads of TS mounted in Rhinos.
Add some Daemons as troops and one or two HQs with MoT.
Take Obliterators for fire support. I'd give it a try.

*breaths a sigh of relief* phew... thats OK then. well, Im not planning on winning any tournaments any time soon, just as long as theyre not so bad its going to take an amazing player to win occaisionally with them.

btw, I may have this completely wrong, because I havent had a chance to look at the dreaded new chaos codex, but I was under the impression that CSM couldnt take daemons anymore. I thought you could have a daemon army or a CSM army but you could no longer mix.

can someone clear that up for me?

somecallmeJack wrote:*breaths a sigh of relief* phew... thats OK then. well, Im not planning on winning any tournaments any time soon, just as long as theyre not so bad its going to take an amazing player to win occaisionally with them.

btw, I may have this completely wrong, because I havent had a chance to look at the dreaded new chaos codex, but I was under the impression that CSM couldnt take daemons anymore. I thought you could have a daemon army or a CSM army but you could no longer mix.

can someone clear that up for me?

They can, but not how you're thinking. They are generic things called Lesser Demons, 13 points a model. Terrible all about. Some use them though. They can assault the turn they come down (they always DS). Some use them for supporting their troops in CC and holding objectives. They are just really poor units.

But if you build a Tzeentch list don't plan on your actual Tzeentch elements of your list to be effective. With what the above post suggested, you'll be looking for your MoT DPs and Oblits to win you the games. Not the T-sons. Their shooting really is that ineffective in 5th edition. Everyone will do nothing next turn rather than loosing almost the entirety of a squad to T-sons bolter fire. For anyone who wants to do Tzeentch I point you to Codex: Chaos Demons, that codex can build it effectively. Some counts as and conversion work can give you a Tzeentch army with other God's elements to it that can really rock a tournament scene too.

Typeline wrote:But if you build a Tzeentch list don't plan on your actual Tzeentch elements of your list to be effective. With what the above post suggested, you'll be looking for your MoT DPs and Oblits to win you the games. Not the T-sons. Their shooting really is that ineffective in 5th edition. Everyone will do nothing next turn rather than loosing almost the entirety of a squad to T-sons bolter fire. For anyone who wants to do Tzeentch I point you to Codex: Chaos Demons, that codex can build it effectively. Some counts as and conversion work can give you a Tzeentch army with other God's elements to it that can really rock a tournament scene too.

Wait a sec, I think you're confusing "being effective" with "killing stuff". Oh how we all weep for the poor Tzeentch player who laments, "My Thousand Sons have been camped on the objective the whole game and there aren't any enemy units within shooting range to contest it. What ever will I do?"

solkan wrote:

Typeline wrote:But if you build a Tzeentch list don't plan on your actual Tzeentch elements of your list to be effective. With what the above post suggested, you'll be looking for your MoT DPs and Oblits to win you the games. Not the T-sons. Their shooting really is that ineffective in 5th edition. Everyone will do nothing next turn rather than loosing almost the entirety of a squad to T-sons bolter fire. For anyone who wants to do Tzeentch I point you to Codex: Chaos Demons, that codex can build it effectively. Some counts as and conversion work can give you a Tzeentch army with other God's elements to it that can really rock a tournament scene too.

Wait a sec, I think you're confusing "being effective" with "killing stuff". Oh how we all weep for the poor Tzeentch player who laments, "My Thousand Sons have been camped on the objective the whole game and there aren't any enemy units within shooting range to contest it. What ever will I do?"

Plague Marines do that MUCH better...

solkan wrote:

Wait a sec, I think you're confusing "being effective" with "killing stuff". Oh how we all weep for the poor Tzeentch player who laments, "My Thousand Sons have been camped on the objective the whole game and there aren't any enemy units within shooting range to contest it. What ever will I do?"

And that's why they aren't effective. Are they using their invulnerable save? Are they using their AP 3 bolters to any effect? Are they using their sorcerer's power to positive effect? No to all three. The job a 277 point squad of Tsons (9 Tsons 1 Asp Sorc) can also be as effectively performed by a 150 point squad of 10 CSMs. The Chaos Marines won't be shooting much sitting on this hypothetical objective in the middle of nowhere. They can go to ground or you can make sure to place the objective in terrain to get a cover save so they have the same advantage as Tsons with an invulnerable save. They didn't waste a minimum of 70 points on a sorcerer so no problem there either. If they want to they can buy some heavy weapons to contribute to the far off battle or buy a champ with a power weapon. Hell they can do both and add a Flamer or something and still come under the point cost of the Tson squad and be more effective than they are.