Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm a pretty frequent (obcessed) Dakka Dakka reader, usually on here a couple of times a day (way way to much). The biggies for me are Painting and Modeling, Discussions, and News and Rumors. As a result I see a ton of really really well done models. Models that absolutely blow you socks off on a regular basis.

Now, I'm not a bad painter, I've won a few local competitions, and I'm always looking for tips and pointers. After a while though, I think I start to de-value my own work, based on all the incredible models that are on display on this site. It creates a sort of pseudo-reality that doesn't really match up to the rest of the world.

Let's face it, most of us face the ubquitous armies of Black Primer Death at the FLGS. Those that are painted are usually done in a style that would make a third grader consider his finger painting to be a photo-realistic rendering of the subject. Of those that are well painted, few have managed to complete entire armies, and still have tons of unpainted stuff at home. And that's ignoring all the people who aren't in the hobby, or have dropped out.

So, really my point is this. The painters that we see on here are often the best of the best of the best. The people who are probably indicative of maybe 5% of the hobby, which is maybe another 0.5 - 1% of the population as a whole. Yet by seeing model after model on here, near Demonslayer levels becomes the rule, rather than the exception.

Does anybody else feel this way as well, or am I just blowing smoke?

I know what you mean, but I think it's quietened down in recent months.

I HAVE seen 'average' players insulted in their p+m threads for not being 'good' enough, or using certain techniques, but not recently...

Seeing well-done paintjobs inspires me to do better, not to feel worse about my own work.

I do see plenty of paintjobs from people who are just starting out, and looking for advice. I think this is really admirable. I find that I really enjoy giving advice on painting, as we all started somewhere. I like to see painters evolve, which can be pretty evident on Dakka.

If you see a paintjob that you consider to be bad, give the kid some advice, not insults. Again, your own models probably looked like that at some point.

BigToof wrote:I'm a pretty frequent (obcessed) ...After a while though, I think I start to de-value my own work, based on all the incredible models that are on display...
Does anybody else feel this way as well, or am I just blowing smoke?

Ahh, indeed, constantly. Many of my casual, and some of my close friends, at my local hobby store, get very irritated with me when I show a model (of mine) at the store that looks good and begin a discussion by pointing out what I see as flaws first. They say, your stuf always looks great, how can you say that.

I am the sort of painter who does multiple armies a year, like 10 or so, and a variety of mini project in between.

For the vested hobbyist (is that a word, I'm not sure, I need my paige...) at whatever level of skill, I think every project is defined by the failures more than the successes, because pushing for excellence, mistakes are what stick in your mind. Furthermore, the longer one stays in the hobby, the larger one's mental encyclopedia of good work becomes. This has a tendency, in my opinion, to make any long term modest hobbyist (there's that word again) see the flaws and limitations in their own skill eventually.

Just remember one can not measure one's own worth soley with the metrics of the achievements of others because there will always be someone worse, but always someone better. Even Julius Caesar dispaired in his commentaries during his Gallic Campaign. Despite his brilliance and amazing victories in Gaul (modern France) he saw himself but a shadow of Alexander the Great who had conquered the known world by Julius' age at the time.

Seeing very well dont paint jobs makes me competitive. Its why i never slack on my own paint jobs no matter the model.

I agree...and I think it's the only time I do get competitive. Heck, I'm not even competitive when I play a game of 40k but show me a well painted mini and I'm going to have to do that well or better on my next.

I can only agree. I have a level of skill to my painting...it's not goldem daemon quality but it's above average....I will post pics of what i'm working on, on a regular basis and I usually get good comments about these minis....the few times that they have not been "good" it has always been constructive....higher skilled painters offering suggestions on how I can achieve a better looking model. It really boils down to what kind of person you are. If you can take constructive criticsm then you are fine...but if you are easily offended by somebody not saying that your mini is the best thing that they have ever seen....then my suggestion would be to leave your pics on your blog and not post them for open discussion....my two cents....

Okay, just to clarify, this is more a mental thing. I've had few people ever make comments that were destructively negative, usually they're constructive criticism.

I did have a guy make some negative comments about some models I was working on. He then posted his version of the same unit, with EXACTLY the same "error", which I proceeded to point out. The irony was not lost of either of us.

This is more a mental sort of raising the bar. Right now my girlfriend thinks my painting is amazing, I'm not sure if I want to expose her to the truely great painters on this site or others.....

Chrysaor686 wrote:Seeing well-done paintjobs inspires me to do better, not to feel worse about my own work.

I absolutely agree. When it comes to painting, I think the only real competition is with yourself. And the best way to keep from sitting on your laurels and being satisfied with what is not your ultimate potential is to look at what other people are doing and steal as many ideas as you can. I've learned so much just by looking at what better painters than I have done that my whole approach to painting has changed completely.

I think the best form of criticism for any kind of artistic work is to push the artist to better achieve their goals- not critique the goals themselves. Because most people have just enough arrogance or stubbornness to them that if you don't like their core idea, they're just going to shut you out. If you can show them how to do what they are already trying to do, but better though, they'll usually listen to anything you have to say.

I have to say that while there may be some bad critics on any board including this one, the atmosphere on the Dakka Modeling & Painting forum is the best of any board I've been on and is why I keep coming back. In general, people on Dakka seem to be pretty good at pushing each other to be better while giving the criticism and support that each painter seems to need at the stage they're at. It's far better here than other forums I've read, where every paint job is either treated like a work of perfection that can never be improved or treated like a complete failure because the critic just doesn't like what you're trying to do.* It's the main reason I stick around here.

*Female Space Marines excepted, of course.

Don't worry about what others say, if you keep at it out of zeal for the art then you will get better. Even if you are already good at it.

Case in point would be to track down some of Augustus' work. I remember when he use to paint like he was using a number 9 mop with house paint.

Chrysaor686 wrote:Seeing well-done paintjobs inspires me to do better, not to feel worse about my own work.

JOHIRA wrote: In general, people on Dakka seem to be pretty good at pushing each other to be better while giving the criticism and support that each painter seems to need at the stage they're at. It's far better here than other forums I've read, where every paint job is either treated like a work of perfection that can never be improved or treated like a complete failure because the critic just doesn't like what you're trying to do.* It's the main reason I stick around here.

qft! I also find that when I start to really get burned out on painting (who hasn't?) When I spend some time carousing the p+m forums I find new inspiration to finish my projects. I also seem to be cursed with having to paint each and every model to the best of my ability, partly because of the amazing work I see here, I can't allow myself to half-ass it, and partly because I really admire and want to reach the awesome skill level some of you guys have. GreyDeath lookin at you

i have to agree that some painters here on dakka have seemed to make a small deal with satan for the mad skills.

but when i see their great paint jobs i try to see techniques they have used and try to apply with my own stuff. i look at the little subtleties that made their model stand out and try to emulate their technique.

I wouldn't even consider saying I'm one of the top 5%. I've only played two games(both against half-painted armies, coincidentally...), for Mork's sake!

I mean,the only reason I post my army pics so much is because I've made a resolve not to play any games until my orks are complete(I'll play my GKs, but I won't go to a GW for them until my orks are done). I mean, I'd love to be in that top 5%, but I seriously doubt it. There are plenty of amazing painters out there.

I will tell someone if their project looks good, but if it's not so great I will probably not comment, because I tend to not go for the really high-end level on individual models. I am more concerned with the army looking good as a whole. If I could say anything to most of the less than impressive examples out their, it would be to get better at taking pictures. I experimented with taking some pics of my miniatures with a disposable camera I got at wall mart, but they were so terrible that they will never see the light of day again. I'm willing to encourage anybody who will actually do at least a basic paint job. My usual 40K opponent has played with the same totally unpainted space marines for 15 years, which is frustrating because he is capable of painting to an incredibly high standard. What makes it even more frustrating is that I can't seem to beat him!

Well, whenever I comment on someone's paintjob or conversion or whatever, I try to comment equally on the positive and negative of each paintjob. I do it so not only does the other person get good feedback, as well as criticism to help them improve, but also so that I notice what they did right, and what they did wrong, so that I can apply that to myself. But I won't lie. If a paintjob is flawless and incredible in every way, I'll say so, and if it's crap, well... I'm not going to lie.

Interesting thread.

I have always found I am more critical of my work than other people are. Because I know what I was working towards and the mistakes I made along the way.

I don't try to paint to the highest standards. My objective is to paint good looking figures in bulk for wargames. Painting to a Gold Demon standard -- even if I could do it -- would simply take too long when you have to paint a large army.

Yeah I remember when I used to go to the games workshop store to paint a lot. I didnt get a lot of painting done at home so I would go there. Painting with the guys who worked there helped stretch me to improve. It also helped that I think there was a little bit of competition among us because we all were about the same age. It was even good sometimes when we would show each other our work and one of us was brave enough to tell each other that one particular part that we did sucked and that we could do it better.

Kilkrazy wrote:Interesting thread.

I have always found I am more critical of my work than other people are. Because I know what I was working towards and the mistakes I made along the way.

I don't try to paint to the highest standards. My objective is to paint good looking figures in bulk for wargames. Painting to a Gold Demon standard -- even if I could do it -- would simply take too long when you have to paint a large army.

QFT, Killkrazy. Like others here, my wife tells me how impressed she is with the latest miniatures that I've painted or converted. Like others, I have only to look to Dakka to see my work trumped by that of others.

However...

Much of what I find here is inspiration and when I do post pics or ask questions, Dakka does not let me down. I know that I'll always get a word of advice on the smallest of issues and there's always feedback on what's good and what needs improvement. I'd say that Dakka keeps me on my toes and has encouraged me to raise my standards in both quality and quantity of completed works. Thanks!

I get a bit depressed at the -competitive- level, it really takes the fun out of being one of the better local painters, and thenn not even making the first cut at GD, or GC, that and that sort of thing has absolutly -infested- sites like CMOM, I'm way beter than the average "player" around here (I don't play much I'm too buys having fun painting) but my stuff gets 5-6's on CMON, which their rating says is "tabletop"...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/Lanceradvanced

I dunnow about you, but -most- of what I see on actual tabletops, just isn't as good..

I haven't posted many pictures on here compared to some, and everything I've put up so far has been to my own "Table" standard, and I'm happy with that.
Of the pics I've put up, most have had a good reception with plenty of praise (the Lightning Claws particularly ) but even the few criticisms I've had have been intended positively. On a couple of occaisions my posts have dropped rapidly off the page with barely a reply, which I take as a good sign that they aren't bad enough to merit a negative comment or helpful tip.

Looking at the excellent standard of the majority of the work I've seen here inspires me to continue to improve my skills ( and I've been at it for quite a while now ).

Even beginners who are posting the first mini's they've painted tend to get a good reception, compliments for their efforts and suggestions for ideas they may want to try.

To be honest, I don't really detect much of a competitive atmosphere, and IMO that's the way a site like this should be. A community of gamers and modellers who are willing to give honest opinions purely to help each other do the best they can ( for the most part).

A community I am proud to say I'm a member of.

(Sorry for the )

gotta agree with most of the people on here, this site is a great inspiration and from the ferw models i have posted i only get constructive criticism from painters that are 'better' than me, i know i'm not a great painter i can do a decent table top standard but it takes me so long that i get burnt out on painting after a few models, my Wood Elf army being an example, for the 3 years i have owned the army i have painted 4 Dryads, 3 Glade Guard and the Metal Lord with great weapon (prehaps the most emo model ever released by GW until the new Dark Eldar range comes out probably) i love the army i just can't find the inspiration to paint it.

hence why i use Dakka, i'm starting a fresh new army to see if that can get me back into painting on a regular basis again, but i like to see the work of thers not just to see where i have gone wrong with the same models but to gain inspiration on how to paint my own

that being said my 40k Tournament army this year is going to be Chainmail with a blue/green/red (i will decide at a later date) wash over it, its going to be used for gaming that much i dont want to waste a good paintjob getting chipped and touched by small children in my local GW its not going to win any awards but at least it will be done in time for the GT

Paint for yourself! I also come here to get inspiration but I will never be a Golden Demon winner and I'm ok with that. My painting is simple and somewhat plan but it's clean and I get compliments when I play against people at my battle bunker......(that always makes me feel good!)

The stuff here though sometimes is sooooo good I feel intimidated but that brings me back to my oringinal point.

Paint for yourself!

The thing about Cool Mini or Not is that a lot of the people that rate models on that site will just put a one on every model just to feth with people's minds. I guarantee you that half of the people that rate models on that site don't even know what glazing, or OSL, or NMM even means. Don't let that damn site get to your head.

Lanceradvanced wrote:I get a bit depressed at the -competitive- level, it really takes the fun out of being one of the better local painters, and thenn not even making the first cut at GD, or GC, that and that sort of thing has absolutly -infested- sites like CMOM, I'm way beter than the average "player" around here (I don't play much I'm too buys having fun painting) but my stuff gets 5-6's on CMON, which their rating says is "tabletop"...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/Lanceradvanced

I dunnow about you, but -most- of what I see on actual tabletops, just isn't as good..

I have to agree with you about CMON. I've seen better minis get lower scores, and worse minis get higher scores. Especially since 5 is tabletop quality. I'd at least give some of yours a 7. It seems as if most of them score based on personal taste, and not the actual paintjob itself. My models would probably get a low score because I prefer to have really deep, dark lines on my models, as I like my models to look like their jumping out of a comic book. I'm not saying anything I do is GD quality, but I would probably give mine a 6, based on GD's scale(if we just pretend that basing doesn't count, since I'm not sure how I'm going to base them yet).

I have to say I'm the opposite to the op. When i see a well painted model on here, I apreciate it as a well painted model but I don't then go 'I could never do that' or de-value my own stuff. That's because I know I could do it if I kept at it. And that goes for anything else in this world.

I remember my maths teacher at school advising me not to go on to a level because in his opinion i had "no natural mathematic talent," and yeah, you can guess what happened. There is no such thing as 'natural talent,' it's a bs term made by people who like to maintain a chauvinistic level of smugness. You can do anything if you put your mind to it.

I never had a "natural talent" for painting miniatures, either.

One thing I found that helped me out a LOT was experience with two-dimensional painting. It really helps you to grasp the basic concepts behind painting, in my opinion much more than beginning with three-dimensional painting ever will.

Seeing well-done paintjobs inspires me to do better, not to feel worse about my own work.

Exactly the opposite for me, awesome models make me put off doing my own. And I'm very sensitive to criticism too I've noticed, one complaint about thick paint or anything else and I don't pick up a brush again for a few weeks, or months.

I dunno, I guess I just don't feel like wasting the time and putting the effort into it if it's going to look like garbage anyway. No one can say anything about an unpainted army, all you can do is pick on it for being unpainted, but a badly painted army is hard to fix and I can't stand the thought of people walking by a game and thinking "Wow, you suck, your models look like gak."

There have been quite a few good posts on here regaurding this topic.

Some find exceptionally done mini's an inspiration or a demotivating drive towards our own lack-luster models.

I know for me being in the military I don't always have the room (expecially in the Barracks) to do alot of painting. Yet when I do, sometimes they don't come out the way I like and then I look on here and just want to hang my models with little modeling hang-men nuses. And then there are those times when I achieve the look I'm going for and I'm really excited to get on to the next model in the squad and do it all over again.

I have to agree, I haven't played as many games as I would like to, primarily because I'm one of those enthusiasts that doesn't like playing with models that aren't painted. So ...that causes me to miss out on games, some of buddies that I play with don't understand this and so I get hounded for not playing as much as they do. Oh well, each person is different and does their own thing.

But one thing that should always be remembered is that this is something we do for fun, it shouldn't be work or a job, that is why it's called a hobby.

Lanceradvanced wrote:I get a bit depressed at the -competitive- level, it really takes the fun out of being one of the better local painters, and thenn not even making the first cut at GD, or GC, that and that sort of thing has absolutly -infested- sites like CMOM, I'm way beter than the average "player" around here (I don't play much I'm too buys having fun painting) but my stuff gets 5-6's on CMON, which their rating says is "tabletop"...
I dunnow about you, but -most- of what I see on actual tabletops, just isn't as good..

I wouldn't worry about CMON, it's a hostile environment almost by design. I've never put a mini up on that site, and I probably never will. FWIW, I've given a number of your models 7-8s. Only criticism I can really make is that the model would look a TON better if you photographed them in front of a gradient with some real lights. I think THAT's what's really holding you back on CMON.

BTW, when I was rating your minis, one of the "next" slide minis that came up was a gorgeous green stuff scuplt of a wood dryad. Better than a lot of professional models I've seen, and this STILL got a 5.6! WTF?!!!?!!? Sorry, but the trolls are in control over there.

I like to post places where people know what sort of effort goes into painting and modeling.

mDaro wrote:
Paint for yourself!

Bingo!

whatwhat wrote:
I remember my maths teacher at school advising me not to go on to a level because in his opinion i had "no natural mathematic talent," and yeah, you can guess what happened. There is no such thing as 'natural talent,' it's a bs term made by people who like to maintain a chauvinistic level of smugness. You can do anything if you put your mind to it.

I disagree about the natural talent. I think there are people with talents in various areas. I've also seen people who really really want something blow by those same smug guys because they didn't have the talent, but they were willing to put in the time and effort.

Fexor wrote:
But one thing that should always be remembered is that this is something we do for fun, it shouldn't be work or a job, that is why it's called a hobby.

Which is the other side of things. Unfortunately with GW games, and their unit level squads it can often begin to feel like a job when you paint that 10,000th slugga boy, etc.