Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Played a 1750 civil war between my nob biker list and my friends shooty ork list. We were playing tourney style so we randomly choose a GT scenario and ended up with #2. Spearhead Annihilation with bonus points for scoring units in enemy deployment and for having more units alive at the end of the game.

Here are the lists...

CHOPPY ORKS

warboss bike power klaw cybork body attack squig bosspole
painboy
no upgrades
power klaw
power klaw bosspole
power klaw rokkit
power klaw skorcha
waaagh banner
big choppa
big choppa rokkit
big choppa skorcha

warboss bike power klaw cybork body attack squig bosspole
painboy
no upgrades
power klaw
power klaw bosspole
power klaw rokkit
power klaw skorcha
waaagh banner
big choppa
big choppa rokkit
big choppa skorcha

19x grots 1x runtherd

SHOOTY ORKS

big mek SAG bosspole

big mek SAG bosspole

15x lootas

15x lootas

15x lootas

30x shoota boys 3x big shootas nob power klaw bosspole

30x shoota boys 3x big shootas nob power klaw bosspole

20x shoota boys 2x big shootas nob power klaw bosspole

3x kannons 3x ammo runts 3x extra crew

3x kannons 3x ammo runts 3x extra crew

3x kannons 3x ammo runts 3x extra crew


My friend the shooty player won the roll to go first, he chose a corner with a big building that he could get a loota unit into. He deployed his shoota boys in front of his kannons and lootas on the ground floor. his left flank was anchored by an intact building that we ruled was impassable.

I set up as far forward with both units as possible I gave a little respect to the SAGs and so was spread a little bit. I rolled a '4' to seize... and so he went for it.

TOP OF 1

He moved his shoota boys up to about 20" away from my nobs. and spread them nice and wide. He unloaded with his kannons first, using all the ammo runts he could. I lost 2 nobs, to instant death one of his SAGs got a 3 strength, and the other got a 6 strength, but scattered onto the other nob unit. It took a wound from that, and then the lootas and big shootas went into the first nob unit. I lost 5 wounds from all of that shooting, and was unlucky in where those wounds landed, costing me another nob.

BOTTOM OF 1

So nothing is in charge range... And against that firepower, I feel that I have to turbo-boost. Because my guns are such short range, I can't take shots at the kannons or lootas without giving my opponent the charge with his shoota boys. I was in a nasty predicament here. I wouldn't feel safe any closer than 15" from the shoota boys if I didn't want to be charged. If I placed myself in that way, the shoota boys had enough room behind them to run backwards 6", which would put them (and everything else) out of charge range. Which just gives the shooty as hell army a free turn of shooting. I really wish I had gotten pictures, the larger 30 man units were spread wide enough, and with that intact building anchoring their flank, their really didn't seem to be any move obvious to me. My choice was to take a 3+ cover save and eat a charge from 60+ shoota boys, or shoot two shooty units, have the 4+ cover, and eat a charge from 60+ boys. I chose to turbo boost.

TOP OF 2

he unloads on to the wounded nob unit pretty much. Knocking it down to the warboss, a big choppa, a painboy, and the power klaw/bosspole. He feels comfortable with that so he puts the remainder of his shooting into the other unit that takes 2 wounds. One SAG got an 11, but couldn't wound, the other got a 5. He then charges the wounded unit with the unit of 30, and a crappy-ish charge with the 20 man unit. A fresh 30 man unit goes into the fresh nob biker unit. The wounded nob biker unit survives, with the power klaw, painboy and warboss alive, they won combat by 4. And the zombies err... I mean orks crumble a little. On the other combat, the nobs predictably evaporate the shoota boys, but lose 6 more wounds before doing so. They have lost 2 models from the 8 total wounds they suffered. They consolidated towards the guns, spreading out for anti-SAG.

BOTTOM OF 2

I rolled for my grots and got them, they snuck on to the table in a safe spot and tried not to make any loud noises. As the nob biker unit came around the corner of that impassable piece of terrain, I see that the way he has spread his kannons + crew, I will only be able to charge one kannon unit... the good news however, is that the next charge I make after that would easily be able to touch the other two kannon units and a loota unit. So I charge that kannon unit, and we just pick it up to speed us along. The painboy and the power klaw in the other unit are now known as rosencrantz and gildenstern, They had 9 FNP rolls to make between them, and they both were carrying a wound. 9 out of 9 saved. The warboss took another wound, and the nob biker unit won by 2... crumble, crumble.

TOP OF 3

Well, rather than give you the play by play of each shot. Let me just cut to the chase. 1 sag, 45 lootas and 6 kannons went into my semi-wounded biker unit, and scooped it. The other warboss lost his last wound after seeing his trusty doc pulled off his bike. The shoota boys consolidated towards my grots.

BOTTOM OF 3

grots run away

TOP OF 4

grots shot in the back by a mob of angry orks, game... blouses.




That was my first game playing nob bikers. Both of us were keenly aware of the swingy-ness of the game. The mission was favoring me by a big margin. If he didn't really really wax me, he was going to get massacred. If I go first, or if I roll well, and I pop through his lootas and the rest of his kannons, then he'd have a lot less shooting to face me down with.

Lots of boys screening lots of shooting still feels way more powerful than nob bikers. I think my only hope to win this game is to have snikrot. That would have silenced 6 of the big guns at the bottom of turn 2 50% of the time. But as I was essentially tabled by turn 3. If I don't make my reserves roll, then they wouldn't really have come in in time to save me from being tabled.

I have a feeling this batrep may generate some "you played it wrong" comments... some of which may be true. I'm looking forward to hearing about options that I might not have seen. This batrep may also serve as a guide to how the nob bikers are scary, but easy to over-estimate using math-hammer...for instance. Everyone says that it takes 12 wounds to kill a nob, which is a stretch, it is true to say that it COULD take 12 wounds to kill a model. But the lootas were putting around 9 or 10 wounds on me per unit. So you distribute them as cautiously as possible, but you are throwing cover saves on guys with a wound on them, even before everyone is wounded. Thats just the reality of the rules of the game. Just remember that a 4+ cover followed by a 4+ FNP isn't even as good as terminator armor. And that when I'm turbo boosting, it is exactly the same as shooting non ap weapons at 2+ armor.

Nob bikers felt strong when they were in combat, but they didn't feel 'impervious' to shooting. Its my opinion that I wouldn't want to have an army like this at a tourney. Especially after the attention this army is getting on dakka. People know what they can do, they know what tools they should have and use to beat them and the 'wow' factor is gone. I think it was a smart play to bring them as a rogue to baltimore, but I'd be happy to face them with any of my own tourney armies after seeing this test game. Including what I took to vegas, so many months ago.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks Shep.

Those Lootas can be hell if they roll high for the number of shots. Sometimes the dice arn't very lucky. Having two turns of shooting into the bikers before they hit is not very fun either. Plus it sounded like deployment hurt you as well.

Because of this you not only had to overcome some increadable ranged shooting but also the terrain and loss of the 1st turn.

One thing I might have changed is instead of turboboosting on turn 1 I would have gotten into gun range and let one of the mobs have it with everything from both bikers. You should be able to cause 20 or so wounds to the mob.

However, had you had first turn, and your oppenent not had GREAT terrain, I think this could have been a little different.

I would suggest that in the same circumstances (KP mission, going 2nd vs shooty horde) that you don't deploy on the table at all. Join the warbosses to their units in reserve and come turbo-boosting on late game. This will essentially start you closer to them, with less turns in the game for the shooty player to make their swing.

Even in objective games, the nob bikes tend to favor short 2-3 turn victories and start losing from there on if they haven't succeeded in wiping out the opponent.

If you have first turn, by all means, start on the line and turbo forward on turn 1.

I agree with your assessment of the metagame though. I get the feeling that half of the lists at adepticon will be nob bikers, and the other half will be armies designed to beat the snot out of nob bikers.

So the best way to beat Nob biker Ork armies is with Loota Spam Ork armies...

:(

Ozymandias, King of Kings

No, belive it or not Nob bikers go down hard to batle wagon and hoard list if used right. They are just tough as nails. I think the only issue with this battle report was, army number. He was pumping 11 units worth of shots into 2 units with what amounts to a 2+ save. The units have way too many PK in them, including the warboss that's 4 per unit. I'd take 2 max. Yeah I know it helps with the wound spread, but your wasting way more points than you save in nobs. Remember to use your shooting. A flame template before a charge would have helped nicely. Also deploying out in the open was costly. Find something to hide behind . 20 models won't stand up to that shooting not even Nobs. Hope this helps

I had a similar game in baltimore vs. shooty orks with bike nobs and wiped the poor shooty orks off the board on turn 2. 2 huge multi-charges each winning by 30+ wounds.

So it's not necessarily a 'counter'. There's a lot in how it's played by both people, mission, and who goes first.

Nobody said anything about the best way to deal with nob bikers... its just a battle report. Somnicide's wife just had a baby, so I can't throw nob bikers at his demons for a couple weeks, and I haven't seen my CSM friend in a while. I'll take out my assault terminator list this weekend and have someone ghost play these nob bikers. I'll be able to supply battle reports of Nobs getting beaten by each of those armies, since each of those players knows their trick.

As far as power klaws are concerned. What do you think happens if I run into your 2 power klaw list with my 4 power klaw list? I take 4 because I want to win the mirror match.

Thanks for commenting Moz, I was hoping you would. I was so close to my game-winning multi-charge. But, to make it a game, I explained to my opponent how I was going to beat him as he originally deployed. He changed his deployment to deny the big multi-charge, until at least turn 3. It meant that 6 of his 9 kannons couldn't shoot on turn 1 but it paid dividends when he was able to clear me out on the top of 3.

I think everyone is going to learn how to deploy to counter as many multi-charges as possible. You can't stop them all obviously, but if they remember that nob bikers always have cover, then they will get used to deploying shooty units in ranks rather than files.

And just like you say. Going first in this game would have been huge. Just taking one round of shooting and with the 3+ cover before I buzzsawed through his shoota boys would have probably changed the game. Needing to go first against gun-line armies doesn't scream 'tourney army' to me.

I didn't by any means mean to offend you Shep. The only reason I'd cut back on the power Klaws was to save up points for another small unit of Bikers to take the charge/shots, contest, or help mop up. I'd say cut the unit of grots down to 15 also. Asalways the list you made is plenty good as usual.

shep wrote:He deployed his shoota boys in front of his kannons and lootas on the ground floor.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to deploy something (anything) right up near your zone to force you way back? I have to admit, I don't know Orks' ranges and so forth too well, but it seems like an obvious tactic.

There's no push-back in spearhead.

Snikrot & crew would've made a big difference in this game it sounds like. He really is the answer to shooty armies forming an effective castle against the bikes.

Course that leaves you down on points which usually comes from the cybork and klaws, leaving you weaker against the mirror match, which the likelihood of encountering has increased significantly.

sexiest_hero wrote:I didn't by any means mean to offend you Shep. The only reason I'd cut back on the power Klaws was to save up points for another small unit of Bikers to take the charge/shots, contest, or help mop up. I'd say cut the unit of grots down to 15 also. Asalways the list you made is plenty good as usual.

All of my posts yesterday were cranky. I forgot to have my honey nut cheerios. I apologize for being so defensive.

The truth is its exactly like Moz said. I can drop cybork bodies and 4 claws, and put snikrot in the list. Which strengthens the army considerably against gunlines. But cripples it against demons and the mirror match. Since it gives more of a dynamic feel, and adds another unit, I'd probably do it. But I think our gaming group has resolved to use nob bikers only as a 'testing army' no one is interested in taking it to a tourney, but it is vitally important that whatever army we are going to take can survive facing one or more nob biker lists.

I just wish I hadn't put so much effort into mine. I did the same damn thing with Nidzilla when they released the 4th ed codex. Got all excited about a list design that no one has heard of, convert up a sweet looking army - and within 6 months the list is a net-deck (not of my own doing, it's just that the lists are just obviously amazing). Maybe I can use my kroot bikers for count's as raven-wing or jetbike council...

Nob bikes aren't even close to as good as nidzilla was, but they certainly seem more popular if weight of threads is any indication.

I say you use em as rough riders when the new guard book comes out Moz . I saw them at Baltimore they are too cool not to use.

Moz wrote:I just wish I hadn't put so much effort into mine. I did the same damn thing with Nidzilla when they released the 4th ed codex. Got all excited about a list design that no one has heard of, convert up a sweet looking army - and within 6 months the list is a net-deck (not of my own doing, it's just that the lists are just obviously amazing). Maybe I can use my kroot bikers for count's as raven-wing or jetbike council...

Nob bikes aren't even close to as good as nidzilla was, but they certainly seem more popular if weight of threads is any indication.

True. Right when the Ork book came out, I looked at FNP nob bikers and thought "these are really good". Everyone else at the time was really into stormboys for some reason. I think I might have looked at them once more when 5th edition came out, and said "yep, still good".

But I have to hand it to the Baltimore Nob Biker players. I don't think anyone really thought, "What if my army WAS nob bikers?"

It is a really cool army for you to own, and you shouldn't be bummed that you put the work into them. Everyone who is a tourney regular is going to know that if they are playing against your nob bikers, that they are playing against a guy who had them built and was competing with them "before it was cool".

The response nob bikers are getting on Dakka is actually kinda weird. I kinda built mine just to see what the fuss was about. My good friend wants to ultimately own a comprehensive ork collection, so I knew when I was done with them they'd get a good home. They are getting too much attention... it is a hardcore list to be sure, but it isn't any more hardcore than the leanest lists from any of the last 4 books to come out.

I think I'm going to book a few more games with them, and keep posting these batreps. With all of the talk about the list, there hasn't been all that many batreps with them. I hope that seeing all of these "post-baltimore" lists from modern books will give people some perspective. And when they see the string of losses I'm predicting, the boogeyman might get dispelled.

The one unfortunate truth about nob bikers, is that they do terrorize non-modern army books. If you are dark angels or prior, you MIGHT not have a chance. With some notable exceptions like black templars and dark eldar. That'll be fixed in time.

I'd kill you if you just shelved that army because, everyone else plays them. The look WAY TOO GOOD for that.

Great batrep and very informative in general in regards to nob bikers.

G

Thanks Shep, great batrep and very informative.

Good bat rep, very informative! I really want to throw some Sisters at some Nob Bikers now and see what happens.