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I've been lurking around looking for information about this combination, and I haven't found much in regards to not being able to cast both in the same turn. In my codex it states Null Zone being a power that is used at the beginning of the shooting phase, nothing alluding it as a psychic shooting attack. Unless there is some clause I'm unaware of where any and all powers used in the shooting phase are infact psychic shooting attacks, then this is completely legal?

This also opens up other possibilities, such as when playing against an army (such as Chaos) that fields Terminators... using Gateway of Infinity(assuming you are using an Epistolary in Terminator Armour by himself) you can Deep Strike next to a squad of Terminators who have just Deep Striked in, next to an icon without scatter, use Null Zone, and Vortex of Doom(I'm also assuming that the Relentless USR allows the Epistolary to use heavy psychic weapons, as he could normally fire a heavy weapon after Deep Striking) and assuming a scatter is rolled, it is reduced by 5 inches, so the average roll only deviates two inches. You could potentially take out half or all of a Terminator squad using that tactic, which.. although I play the Space Marines, I recognize as being extremely sadistic! You could do the same to a Farseer squad, except your deep strike could scatter, and your Psyker tests are most likely being rolled on 3D6... so using Vortex would be pretty risky in that scenario. Basically any juicy unit, you could Deep Strike 18 inches away from, and use Vortex of Doom... and if you had a Storm Shield on your Librarian... a 3+ save against a S10 AP1 attack is something unreal to have if you roll a Perils... ofcourse, you'd save for the Vortex wound, and then have to re-roll a successful save for the Perils... you're still quite protected against such a devastating attack! And from any ensuing fire that a Librarian in Terminator Armour with a Storm Shield that could do that would CERTAINLY draw.

I'm just curious if there are any rules that prevent this(hopefully!) or if you could do it without a hitch.. something is telling me that it isn't quite right, but the more I look around for rules disallowing the use of these skills in conjunction, the more I find no reason why they wouldn't be. I know for older codecies, many skills used during the shooting phase were FAQ'd to show which ones were shooting attacks, but wasn't that because in older rules, specifying it was a psychic shooting attack wasn't absolutely necessary? Almost every FAQ I've read for pre-5th codicies always have lists for which ones are shooting attacks, so I'm assuming it wasn't necessary in the old rules?

The only reason I'm slightly convinced that it would work is that this is a 5th edition codex, so it was written specifically for the current edition and all the ensuing rules within. And on all of the other skills that are Psychic shooting attacks, it clearly states them as being so, except for Null Zone.

Can anyone help me out here?

There's no reason you can't use null zone and a psychic shooting attack.

You can't use gateway, null zone, and vortex in the same turn unless you are using tigurius.

Drunkspleen wrote:There's no reason you can't use null zone and a psychic shooting attack.

You can't use gateway, null zone, and vortex in the same turn unless you are using tigurius.

You actually couldn't with Tigurius, as he isn't in Terminator Armor and he is firing a heavy weapon after Deep Striking.

I think I found my problem though, I was under the impression that Librarians could use two powers per turn, whereas they can only use one, while Epistolaries can use two. Plain as day on the Librarian Powers page! so, at most you could use Gateway and Vortex, but not Gateway, Vortex AND Null Zone. that's a little bit more reasonable.

Thank you for pointing that out though, I had used the number of skills they could take, instead of looking up however many they each got. So the only way to accomplish a Gateway+Null+Vortex would be with two Epistolaries Gatewaying and one using Null, other using Vortex. Which in turn makes it alot more risky for the point cost of both of them!

Gamthen wrote:You actually couldn't with Tigurius, as he isn't in Terminator Armor and he is firing a heavy weapon after Deep Striking.

Good catch, I'd forgotten the need for terminator armour.

Thank you for pointing that out though, I had used the number of skills they could take, instead of looking up however many they each got. So the only way to accomplish a Gateway+Null+Vortex would be with two Epistolaries Gatewaying and one using Null, other using Vortex. Which in turn makes it alot more risky for the point cost of both of them!

Note that the epistolary cannot take 3 psychic powers, and still only has the standard 2 choices.

Also, you could always attach one librarion to the other, that way one of them can gate both to deep strike back in together, then the other one uses Null and they each drop a vortex, as you say costly, but the potential to splatter something is definitely there.

Also, it looks like your OP suggests that you can Deep Strike with no scatter using an enemy Icon, you cannot.

Drunkspleen wrote: Good catch, I'd forgotten the need for terminator armour.

Yeah that's crappy isn't it? Not just for the purposes of Null zone and Gateway, but that your unique Librarian that saved a whole outnumbered planet from Orks can't be afforded the luxury of terminator armour.. but he DOES get to pick from all the skills! When anyone else takes on the Orks in extreme numbers, they almost always end up in terminator armour!

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Also, it looks like your OP suggests that you can Deep Strike with no scatter using an enemy Icon, you cannot.

Really? I thought Icons and Locator Beacons worked for either player, it's much more dangerous that way! Thanks for pointing that out though.

What if you had 2 Libbys attached to the squad, 1 casts gate of afinity zone, 2nd power is null zone, the other in termi armor uses the vortex power.

That seems like a lot of effort (and points) just to kill some terminators. It would be easier to just charge them with lots of power weapons (from your own terminators for instance) or just ply them with low AP fire and use null zone.

thehod wrote:What if you had 2 Libbys attached to the squad, 1 casts gate of afinity zone, 2nd power is null zone, the other in termi armor uses the vortex power.

As long as one is an Epistolary, yes indeed.

Regwon wrote:That seems like a lot of effort (and points) just to kill some terminators. It would be easier to just charge them with lots of power weapons (from your own terminators for instance) or just ply them with low AP fire and use null zone.

Yes, but for less points than the squad of termies you'd be doing Vortex to, you'd be taking most of them out(assuming no Storm Shields are in play) and crippling a very survivable unit from their force. This whole idea of a Librarian popping away 24" from where he was and laying down a blast marker of any size that is AP1 and S10 is always a pretty big threat to keep in mind.