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It's currently got too much magic without being enough (points put into it in order to power
magic that never really works). I bulit my list around the banner of battle with Dragon Knights,
which I think is predictable and obvious.

Off the top off my head, the list looks like this:

Archmage, Hoeth
Mounted BSB, dragon banner, banner of battle

20 Spears, FC
10 Archers, Muso

Dragon Knights, FC, Banner of Ellyrion
Ellyrian Reavers, Muso, I think I gave them bows and spears
10 Swordmasters, Banner +D3 power dice
14 White Lions, FC, Banner of the Lion
20 Phoenix Guard, FC, Banner of Magic Resistance

Eagle
Two Bolt Throwers
___

I'm not sure how to start shifting the army to become something different. I know a
Dragon Prince would be an easy change (well, easy from a single purchase perspective),
but what else can I do? I'm going to switch to scroll caddy magic to make up points
for a Lord, but I'm just not sure what other models to include or switch in, out. It
seems there are far too many roles on the battlefield that the High Elves an excel
in, yet there are too few bodies or slots in which to fit them.

Um, get more characters? It seems like if you want to go magic heavy you need a Wizard lord and 3 wizards, while if you want to go magic light you just need a wizard with 2 scrolls, so you can free up your Lord. You are currently half way committed to magic, which is no good at all.

40kenthusiast wrote:Um, get more characters? It seems like if you want to go magic heavy you need a Wizard lord and 3 wizards, while if you want to go magic light you just need a wizard with 2 scrolls, so you can free up your Lord. You are currently half way committed to magic, which is no good at all.

Yup, that's what I'm planning for High Elf 2.0. Scroll Caddy - Archmage = more other stuff.

If I were you I would go heavy magic defense. The high elves can't really compete in casting anymore with the new Daemons, WoC, and Dark Elves. So put your points into stopping their magic. that will automatically give you 50 pts for dropping the Banner of Sorcery, because why take it if you are just taking wizards to dispel enemy magic? You can take another eagle right there. So for your Arch mage I can suggest: Lv. 3Sigil of Asuyan(for that really annoying spell that you want to get rid of) and three dispel scrolls. so with just that you have 4 dd and four Dispel scrolls, one of which can destroy the spell you use it on.

Drop the Spearelves down to 10 with out the FC. maybe keep them with the mus. this will spare you points.

Try to get Korhil in on a Lion Chariot. This really makes that chariot formidable. 3 str 6 attacks on top of 5 other Str 5 attacks plus the impact hits. good stuff.

maybe think about shrinking down the phoenix guard, and maybe get rid of the reavers if you are in a pinch or points. I like them, but what they are good at can really be done by the eagles (i.e. killing war machines, Wizard hunting, and baiting.) and use the points to put in a Lv 1 mage with Annulian crystal. now you go from 4dd to 6dd, and the enemy loses a pd.

Wow, so the only thing I'd be picking up in this set up would be
more wizard models, an Eagle, and a White Lion Chariot (and
Korhil, if I'm playing a special characters legal type game).

Guess I'll try for that next.

Are you pro or anti Dragon Mage? One of those guys with the Silver Wand can dish out a pretty decent amount of magic missile spam.
They also take a lot of heat off the rest of your army as people tend to want to get rid of them.

I tend to agree with Arion on High Elf magic. It's hard to be competitive with offensive magic, especially with a lone spell-caster. Unless I'm throwing a mage in for basic magic defense, I like to run at least 2 of them, with at least one of them running High Magic. Curse of Arrow Attraction + RBTs = pin cushion enemies . I recall reading a prior thread about you not having much benefit from the Book of Hoeth - maybe switch that out for a different item setup? Annulian Crystal wouldn't be bad.

The BSB has two banners?

If you're keen on focusing on magic, I'd really cut the extras on the Dragon Princes. I've been finding decent success running a bare unit of 5 DPs - 150 points for a unit with good speed and armor and still potent on the charge. It's not a terrible loss if they're killed off. If you want to still focus on the DPs, I'd try to free up points for another unit of DPs or a chariot. As it is, they come off as high target priority in your list, especially since they're the fastest dangerous unit in your list. Sure, you have the Reavers, but I feel like they can be relatively safely ignored in favor of killing off the DPs.

I agree with Arion about the Phoenix Guard - dropping them to maybe 15 could save you some points and won't make them particularly less effective (you lose a rank, but they tend to be pretty stable - I rarely lose more than 3-5 in a given game). Also, I'd put the Banner of Sorcery with them over the Swordmasters, if only since they're a lot more likely to survive with their Ward Save. Dropping 5 PG gives you points for a 2nd Eagle and change.

I've never been a fan of getting a bit of everything from the HE list. There is, IMO, a marked order of threat from the units that lends a really mixed list to be whittled down in systematic order. They're all quite tempting choices, but ultimately, I prefer to limit the number of different Special choices I take. YMMV, though.

My bad. BSB has dragon armor and banner of battle.

Maybe I should just leave out the Swordmasters? They seem to draw an
inordinate amount of ranged attacks.

malfred wrote:Maybe I should just leave out the Swordmasters? They seem to draw an
inordinate amount of ranged attacks.

Might not hurt. Would free up 150+ points. The problem I have with Swordmasters is that everyone knows that they can shred people up in CC and that they only have 5+ saves. I'm not surprised that people focus a lot of ranged to get rid of them. I know I'll probably never run them since my opponents all tend to run lots of ranged, which is a shame since I'm rather fond of the models.

and they just die from the ranged attacks. the most effective I've ever been with them is in two small units, or against things that don't have a lot of shooting, like WoC, VC, or even brettonian players who just use knights and that's it.

What armies do you usually play against, malfred?

HFJor wrote:What armies do you usually play against, malfred?

Good question.

I've mostly played Empire, but I've also gotten games against Dwarfs, Daemons, and Vamps.

I expect I'll be facing Lizardmen sometime soon...

So lots of magic or lots of shooting. That's rough.

Yeah, so I guess I want a balanced approach. Wizard and banner or two
wizards, do you think?

Two wizards, this helps your magic defense in ways the Banner can't. Btw, I played Korhil in a white lion chariot last night against WoC. He and another Lion Chariot charged a unit of knights, and ran right through them. Korhil's chariot took a wound and that was it.

Arion wrote:Two wizards, this helps your magic defense in ways the Banner can't.

QFT.

Haven't played with any special characters since I'm not fond of them, but Chariots are all sorts of nice. If you can avoid them being hit by S7+ weapons, those Impact Hits on the charge can do quite a bit of damage. I'm still not sold on the cost effectiveness of the Lion chariots, though.

HFJor wrote:So lots of magic or lots of shooting. That's rough.

It's note the magic that makes Daemons rough...

I don't know, It sure worked out in my favor last night. Korhil with the chariot was 270 pts. Add the other Lion Chariot that's 410 pts. they took down a unit of 6 knights with a sorcerer. that's at least equal because they had the mark of nurgle, and a full command. So they had earned their points back in round two, and this broke his line down letting me pick my battles with my white lions. But I was only using the Lion Chariots because I was going for a Chracian theme.

Without Armyroster.com, I can't really tell what's going on. Will revise
a list later.

I'll plan on two. One with Korhil, and one without (even though I play
Warmachine, I'm still reluctant to always field special characters).

I understand, The only reason i ever use them is because everyone i play does, so i figured i might as well join in. But Korhil isn't that bad. 4+ armour in HtH, and 3+ from shooting. +2 Str with killing blow(you can get that from the white sword anyways), and immune to poison(doesn't come up a lot). the only difference between his Ax and the White sword is that he can use it on the chariot, where as the White Sword is "model on foot only"

Admittedly, Korhil seems like one of the more innocuous Special Characters.

2250 Pts - High Elves Roster - Unnamed

Lv. 3 Archmage General 3xDispel Scrolls, Sigil of Asuryan
Lv. 1 Mage Annulian Crystal
Lv. 1 Mage 2x Dispel Scrolls
Korhil on White Lion Chariot

10 Spearmen, Muso, Light Armor
10 Archers, Muso

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor
15 Phoenix Guard Full Command
14 White Lions Full Command, Standard of the Lion
Lion Chariot

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
2 Great Eagles

_____

For non Korhil I think I'd swap out the Archmage for another Lv. 1 Mage, and
substitute Korhil for a mounted combat lord of some type (not ready to build
and paint a dragon). In place of White Lion Chariots I think I'd have points for
2 Tiranoc Chariots.

Of course that would mean buying 4 chariots. lol

That seems like a lot of Dispel Scrolls, even for a list that's going heavy on Magic Defense. I'm tempted to suggest dropping the Scroll-caddy mage to bump the other guy to lvl2 and getting more Spearelves considering how light in numbers you are for 2250 points.

Otherwise, it looks nice, and capable of weathering some decent amount of shooting. The Specials all pack a punch too.

What do mounted combat lords get? Star Lance, or is that
reserved for crazy dragon fun time?

malfred wrote:What do mounted combat lords get? Star Lance, or is that
reserved for crazy dragon fun time?

On a pony: Starlance and some defensive items should be allright (vambraces of defence for example).

On a (star)dragon: Most players will focus on keeping the pansy elf alive and letting the dragon do the real damage. That means vambraces of defence and armor of caledor. Add a GW for hittyness as you can't get extra save from shield due to the AoC and you're pretty much ready to go.

Pony!

Can I has pony, please?

Yeah, he'll probably be on pony.

My problem with putting the bsb on a pony was that I lost
access to the reroll bubble as I advanced him with the Dragon
Knights.

The BSB on pony isn't bad so long as he and his unit aren't the only fast CC unit in your list.

That Character set up is EXACTLY likr the one I just used. EXACTLY. But it is a lot of magic defense. I only used all that dispel goodness because my enemy was running HEAVY chaos magic. I used every scroll, and the Sigil, and he still managed to get two or three spells off. Most games you won't really need it.

Make sure you let both chariots charge the same target on the same turn. they work better like this, especially if your like me and usually only roll 2-3 on impact hits.

If you choose to include a fighty Lord, go with mounting him with the armour of caledor and the star lance. don't bother adding barding to the horse because it won't improve the armour save. stick him in one of the units that you are going to keep fairly close to your chariots, and then let him charge out of the unit at the same target if you think you might need a little extra ompf.

All in all I think it's a solid list, if a little heavy on the Magic defense, but who knows, you might need it. I did.

A combined charge with Dragon Princes and a chariot is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Let us know how this list works out for you.