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Hi,

So I recently obtained a fantasy rulebook and have pre-ordered the lizardmen codex. I own a tyranid army with no guns, and am assembling it all at once, so I had the bright idea to put them on square bases to use as stand-ins for lizardmen. Cool right? Here's what models would count as what:

Hormagaunts = Saurus
Raveners = Saurus on Cold Ones
Lictors = Kroxigor
Warriors w/ Wings = Terradons

What I have is almost 100 hormagaunts, 7 raveners, 12 warriors, 4 lictors, 1 broodlord, 1 red terror w/ wings. Below is what I thought I could make out of that list, and I was wondering if anyone has some advice on how to split up the units. This list is laid out as much as possible according to the new rules (read through the store copy of the new codex while I'm waiting on it) and according to what I have.

Core- 1170
18 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 234
18 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 234
18 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 234
18 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 234
18 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 234

Special- 822
4 Kroxigor- 232
6 Saurus on Cold Ones w/ musician, standard bearer- 240
10 Terradons- 350

Heroes- 669
Scar Veteran on Cold One w/ great weapon & shield- 119
Tiktaqto Master of Skies (new terradon mounted character)- ~300
Tehenhauin (new skink preist but more hth focused)- ~250

Total: 2661

The terradons could come on from a board edge with tiktaqto while the blocks of troops move forward with the support of the kroxigor and with the cold ones for mobility. The only defense against magic would be the level 2 skink preist.

Would this be viable with the new list? Are 6x3 the best formations for the saurus with spears (getting full attacks from the second row in the new codex)?

Thanks for helping a newb picture these things in the meantime

Wait so is this a list your thinking about running? i would suggest starting off w/ a 1k-2.25k list and going from there. In the current incantation, if you found a opponent to fight you at such a odd point value, you'll have a couple glaring problems.

a) Why even have the skink priest? That's not anti-magic...that's just a waste of points

b) Sure Saurus will rock 6x3 w/ Spears but god forbid your enemy has any shooting. They will very quickly be weakened and begin loosing combat rez quickly. You need more than just units of 18 spearmen for Core. Sqinks help a lot to screen units and act as harassers

c)If you have a Scar Vet, why not toss him on a Carnosaur? Just saying..they are savage

d)10 Terradon riders is a lot and they can only focus on reasonably 1 target a turn, assuming that your gunning for WM and what not. So why not split this in to 2 units of 5?

e) Kroxigors w/ no shield is terrible. They won't make it into combat.

Your running a close combat Lizardmen army w/ no ablity to force the enemy to come to you. Terradon riders, while annoying at hitting WM/IC/Small units, will die to a lot of things. Focus on what your army is trying to do and get some harassers/screeners in your army

OK, so this is really helpful! Thanks for all the points / tips! It might sound obvious to some... but I really have no idea and am just trying to feel my way through what my army could represent to try out the game. I would definitely do a smaller point value to start and get a feel for the tactics and all!

a) Can I ask a stupid question? Would two skink preists be anti-magic? Seriously, is there any way to defend against magic besides taking a Slann? I'm not interested in that too much (don't like the model / idea for the army) so I was trying to find another way. I thought a skink priest or two with dispel scrolls worked, too?
b) As a 40k player, I thought large numbers/blocks of effective units could weather the storm and make it into combat without screeners.
c) Good idea... just thinking of the model I had to represent it.
d) From what I understand of the new 'dex, only one squad can come on from a different edge with Tiktaqto... I should probably make this a bit smaller then? It was the only thing I thought would force the enemy from sitting back and blasting me to bits
e) So the Saurus shielding the Kroxigor is a bad idea, eh?

What if I broke the Saurus up into units of 12 instead of 18 (2 ranks instead of 3). Could I have Saurus... (dramatic pause).... screening for Saurus? Would that even make sense? I could have 8 units of these instead of the current 5 if they were only 2 ranks. I just can't think of an equivalent model to skinks that I could get enough of (the closest would be rippers). Is there any way to make the footslogging Saurus effective without skinks (under the new rules)?

I'll try to answer some questions:

RiTides Nids wrote:b) As a 40k player, I thought large numbers/blocks of effective units could weather the storm and make it into combat without screeners.

It depends on how much shooting you have to weather through. Considering the Saurus warriors form the bulk of your army, any particular loss of fighting ability in one of those blocks is going to hurt you, and any decent amount of shooting will have you taking Panic Tests with increasing frequency. Considering that there's no such thing as Cover Saves in WFB (not to mention the addition of save modifiers) and units move "slower", so to speak, than in 40k, you really need more screening/good maneuvering in WFB. Marching forward and "weathering" shooting is generally a "bad" idea.

RiTides Nids wrote:What if I broke the Saurus up into units of 12 instead of 18 (2 ranks instead of 3). Could I have Saurus... (dramatic pause).... screening for Saurus? Would that even make sense? I could have 8 units of these instead of the current 5 if they were only 2 ranks. I just can't think of an equivalent model to skinks that I could get enough of (the closest would be rippers). Is there any way to make the footslogging Saurus effective without skinks (under the new rules)?

Honestly, for a core unit like this, you'd probably want to make the blocks bigger rather than smaller. Again, if facing any kind of shooting, small units of Saurus warriors are going to be shredded up, and even with their stats, they're unlikely to be able to hold off very much. You really want to have that extra static Combat Resolution to make sure that when you hit an enemy unit, you're likely to overwhelm them and cause them to break (remember, the difference of CR after a round of Close Combat is subtracted from the loser's Break Test).

I'm gonna reiterate libingregret's comment: start off with a 1k-2k list and go on from there. Not even in 40k do you build a list up to a random points level.

That's really helpful... thanks!

I definitely would play a smaller point value to start, I guess I was just trying to see what the models I have could be equivalent to. I'll put up a smaller list after digesting your feedback a little more

I could field 4 blocks of 24 saurus, 6x4 each. But I see what you're saying about screening. I just never liked the idea of sending the small guys out first to take bullets (arrows in this case, I guess ) for the bigger guys. Takes all the fun out of it

I was actually trying to make a 3000 point list (using all the models I had to use) and then whittle it down. This was actually really helpful for that... any more comments would be appreciated, it's invaluable to me since I've only played a test game of fantasy before. Still reading through the rulebook, but I had no idea there were no cover saves in fantasy. Ouch!!!

I'll post up a modified version soon...

Yeah, "Cover Saves" in WFB result in negative modifiers for enemy ranged units to hit you rather than an extra type of saving throw.

While I'm working on it...

I could really use advice on:

1) The best size for saurus units
2) How to best equip a skink preist (will be 2 now)
3) How to best equip a scar vet/old one on cold one

Okay, went into the store and looked through the new codex again (in between removing mold lines on models... man is that boring me to death ) and thought about it some more.

I also got to watch an entire game of fantasy... the shooty army won, but it wouldn't have mattered if the other guy had screeners- all of his units were on hills or in buildings.

Core- 1224
25 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 318
25 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 318
23 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 294
23 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 294

Special- 772
4 Kroxigor- 232
6 Saurus on Cold Ones w/ musician, standard bearer- 240
10 Terradons- 300

Heroes- 1007
Tiktaq'to Master of Skies- 315
Tetto'eko- 255
Tehenhauin- 250
Old One on Cold One- 187 (how to eqiup?)

Total: 3003

This is using the new unit costs as far as I know them- I believe Terradons are only 30 each, and Saurus are 1 point cheaper but +1 for spears.

The idea is for each of the skink preist characters to join a unit of Saurus each. I might need to drop a few more Saurus to make them fit (I know Tehenhauin is on a 40mm base). What is the best way to equip the Old One on Cold One with? For less than 3000 this would be a Scar Vet (and I'll definitely be playing less than 3000 to start, but like I said, I'm just trying to see what I have overall to work with )

Thanks for the tips

RiTides Nids wrote:While I'm working on it...

I could really use advice on:

1) The best size for saurus units
2) How to best equip a skink preist (will be 2 now)
3) How to best equip a scar vet/old one on cold one

I often run 2 units of saurus in units of 20 5x4 including command. They are tough and intimidating. Also forget spears unless you are taking them as a surrogate temple guard with the immune to psychology mark. (ie you can stick a slann in a unit of 20 saurus that are itp and arrange them 6x4 to protect him but its an epic points sink!)

2 Skink priests - make them level 2 as then they can use 3 power dice each and if you have 2 level 2 priests thats 2+2+2 = 6 power dice - thats 2 spells @ 3 dice if you want to be sure of getting it off. (more than 3 dice and it starts to get a bit risky in terms of mis cast).

for equipment I would suggest that one has the diadem of power - this way if you are against dwarves/low magic then 2 of your 'wasted' dispel dice are helping to fry them or alternatively if agaisnt an army that relies on magic (undead, daeomons etc) you can bump up your 2+1+1 dispel dice into 4+1+1.

If you are worried about magic you can give the 2nd skink priest the cube of darkness AND the mark of the old ones. Its a bit of an investment though, but it meants that theres a 75% of stopping the enemies magic phase.. against aformentioned undead (stopping danse macabre for example) it can be game winner!

The other option for magic defense is to give the scarveteran/oldblood the mark of tepoc.

However, you really really need skinks. Skinks dictate the pace of engagement and can bait and harass units - all of which are important things. The kroxigor can charge through them.

At the moment if I were you I would get a feel for the army as the new codex/army book will be different so much of the internet stuff will need time to settle and be re-evaluated.

Ok, if you are like me and do not want to go heavy magic with the Slann mage priest it very easy to build a powerhouse list with them.

First, find a points total and build to fit that, not running off what you have. Normally a 2250 total is a good amount to shoot for as it seems mostly what tournies are running now.

Second, Saurus Lord on Carnosaur is a power house of pain, but is a support combatant, don't slam him into large units, but he'll vaporize most small units.

Third, Add some screeners to soak up the inevitable shooting your opponent will field, skinks are perfect for this and skirmishers are harder to hit than rank and file.

Fourth, Dump tiktacktoe and split the terradons into 2 units of 5 each. These make wonderful harrying units and can add a very much useful flank or rear charge to a combat.

Fifth, 2 level 2 skinks with the right magic items can successfully handle most of your anti-magic needs except super magic powered armies.

Other useful tips I can think of, add your own shooting, the new Stegadons are brutal and broken from what some people think, also if you wanna get rude, you can throw both skink priests on a Engine of the Gods and bring alot of cheese and pain. The salamanders are iffy on preformance now, but the new Spike-a-dons look VERY promising.

The easiest thing to do is figure an exact points value and go from there. Every army I know changes playstyle and power with points as you add or remove them.

Thanks for the advice on skink preists! I'm thinking I'll be using the two new named skink preist characters in the new codex I listed above.

I included Tiktaqto so that the Terradons can come on with him from a back or side edge. That's why they're all in one unit... if I dropped him I would definitely split them into two.

Any other thoughts / advice? I could really use it

This is mostly a personal opinion, but I would honestly start with a lower point level and avoid special characters, especially as you are just starting the game.

I feel like you'll get a lot more out of using "mundane" characters to start, and the lower points would let you really get a better feel of the nuances of the game.

Good point . For a mundane character, any advice on how to equip a scar vet or oldblood on a cold one? I'm reading through old threads that discuss this but I'm thinking it will have changed with the new codex...

Go with a Lord on a Carnie,

Item wise, give him the Scimitar of +2 attacks and the Maiming shield for +1 attack. That's a whole buncha nasty attacks on the charge. If ya want really nasty hitting power give him a great weapon so he can pop warmachines in one hit, i.e. chariots.

Adding any item you have points for that can increase spell resistance or dispell dice helps also.

The greatest assett of the lizards is how manueverable they are, use it. Some of the fastest units in the game without being moounted help.

Also, units of skinks with Kroxigors in them is returned and makes for a VERY strong hitting unit with a beautifully cheap wound soaking capability from shooting.

For what it's worth, I researched a little more and also popped by the store again to look through the codex, and here's what the above list would look like with the correct point value / equipment on the Oldblood.

However, I have a lot to take into consideration after all of the advice given here

One note about the named characters- they do have some incredible abilities (Tetto'eko to allow you to redeploy D3 units, Tiktaq'to to come on from a back board edge, and Tehenhauin to use the lore of beasts to hopefully give the calvary a boost) to help mitigate the lack of mobility in this list. It's not much, but it's something

Well, here it is with the correct point values but still similar to above:

Core- 1188
24 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 306
24 Saurus w/ spears, musician, standard bearer- 306
23 Saurus w/ spears, full command- 306 (goes with Tetto'eko)
20 Saurus w/ spears, full command- 270 (goes with Tehenhauin)

Special- 760
4 Kroxigor- 220
10 Terradons- 300 (goes with Tiktaq'to)
6 Saurus on Cold Ones, musician, standard bearer- 240 (goes with Oldblood)

Heroes- 1051
Tetto'eko- 255
Tehenhauin- 250
Tiktaq'to Master of Skies- 315
Oldblood w/ Cold One, Light Armor, Shield, Burning Blade, Carnosaur Totem- 231

Total: 2999