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I was given a Forgeworld Bloodthirster, and now that he's part of the Chaos Daemon army, I'm thinking about running him the gladiator this year.

Question is, what to run with him?

Right off the bat, there's the potential to lose the one game where they run the 'screw the guy running the big thing' mission.

But, on the plus side, he should be able to bat aside both horde orks and nob bikers with contemptuous ease (against nobs, he's stomping for 11 (+ charge attacks?? do you get those if you stomp) attacks that instantkill them with his rerolls on 6 to hit. Against the horde, he's getting 30(!) attacks when he stomps, with extra attacks on 6's, and just slaughtering them). Against other super-heavies, he's probably got initiative, but only gets 8+d3 attacks - each with 2d6 pen. There really isn't a lot that threatens him, and without having to worry about his champion dying before he gets there, and being able to start him on the table 2/3rds of the time, the slaughter should commence on turn 2.

In a game designed around having big broken things, it can't be too bad to have the biggest trump on the table.

So, backup...

Fateweaver?? Now we get the giant T8 2+/4+ guy re-rolling his saves too?


Giant Super Thirster: 888
Fateweaver: 333

This only leaves a little over 1000 points to play with.

Continue to 'go big'?
2 units of 8 bloodcrushers w/ max goodies?

That leaves just a handful of points for the requisite objective grabs? 3 small units of troopy daemons.

8 Plaguebearers w/ Icon, 2x 5 bloodletters?


That enables a first-wave consisting of:
Big Guy, Fateweaver, 16 crushers.

followed by the second wave of little troopy things to go after objectives while my opponent is busy trying to stay alive? Can I kill enough units though, with just those choices. I can multi-charge pretty effectively with crushers, I'd think, but without massacring into new fights (and, indeed, after non-huge guys get a free disengage from the bloodthirster as well) unless I'm fighting someone fielding high-point units, I doubt he'll make his points back.

Could be fun though.

This idea is made of win. Even imagining the death monster with Fateweaver standing next to him utterly cracks me up. Go for it man! I'm probably going to be in the Gladiator, and I still think that's hilarious. I can't begin to imagine how to handle that monster when its rerolling all its saves. Pure murder.

*hides under rock*
dude that combo is goint to rip they guy apart... the only worry would be if he focussed fire on the fateweaver

40kenthusiast wrote:This idea is made of win. Even imagining the death monster with Fateweaver standing next to him utterly cracks me up. Go for it man! I'm probably going to be in the Gladiator, and I still think that's hilarious. I can't begin to imagine how to handle that monster when its rerolling all its saves. Pure murder.

Nullzone is the answer.

Daemons will have a hard time vs. a well-configured SM army.

I agree. I was all hyped by Angarrath and Fateweaver, but it's relatively easy to get 2 psycannons into a Marine army that already has a Librarian with Nullzone. The Psycannons pop Fateweaver and the Big Guys invulnerable save is reduced to working oly 25% of the time.

DarthDiggler wrote:I agree. I was all hyped by Angarrath and Fateweaver, but it's relatively easy to get 2 psycannons into a Marine army that already has a Librarian with Nullzone. The Psycannons pop Fateweaver and the Big Guys invulnerable save is reduced to working oly 25% of the time.

And how many players is he likely to encounter running this specific combo you've laid out? Probably none. While it's easy to say, "this can stop it." The chances are he'll be facing Nob Bikers, Lash/ Oblit spam, and any other copy/paste "hard" lists people are likely to bring in droves to Gladiator.

I think this list will kill at Gladiator, Redbeard. My only suggestions would be to not max out goodies on the Bloodcrushers and leave them without upgrades, and maybe try and get a unit of Flamers in there for speed and more killyness. I guess you'd probably have to reduce the Bloodcrushers sqauds in number to add them, though. More Plaguebearers over Bloodletters might work better for pure objective holding as well.

FYI, Angrath laughs at null zone. Gargantuan creatures ignore psychic powers that don't have strength values.

Centurian99 wrote:FYI, Angrath laughs at null zone. Gargantuan creatures ignore psychic powers that don't have strength values.

The remaining Daemons will not 'laugh' at it.

That lib might not be on the board long enough with a giant angry BT chasing em down.

Clay Williams wrote:That lib might not be on the board long enough with a giant angry BT chasing em down.

I'd take 10 Assault Terminators and 10 normal Termies that will be between the daemonic monsters and the Libby.

wuestenfux wrote:

Clay Williams wrote:That lib might not be on the board long enough with a giant angry BT chasing em down.

I'd take 10 Assault Terminators and 10 normal Termies that will be between the daemonic monsters and the Libby.

*yawn* - as a gargantuan creature, Aangrath may tankshock through normal units. I will put him where I want him, you will move your pathetic "terminators" out of his way, where they will be mauled by bloodletters riding juggernauts, and Aangrath will tear your librarian in two.

Blood for the Blood God and all.

Redbeard wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Clay Williams wrote:That lib might not be on the board long enough with a giant angry BT chasing em down.

I'd take 10 Assault Terminators and 10 normal Termies that will be between the daemonic monsters and the Libby.

*yawn* - as a gargantuan creature, Aangrath may tankshock through normal units. I will put him where I want him, you will move your pathetic "terminators" out of his way, where they will be mauled by bloodletters riding juggernauts, and Aangrath will tear your librarian in two.

Blood for the Blood God and all.

I'll shoot down your weakly Bloodletters at first sight.

Praise the Emperor.

You coming to Adepticon? Maybe we can convince Centurian99 and Inquisitor_Malice to let us play in the first round.

Or are you just talking big from across the pond?

Well, I'm talking big, but will attend the GT this year as always.

Redbeard wrote:You coming to Adepticon? Maybe we can convince Centurian99 and Inquisitor_Malice to let us play in the first round.

Or are you just talking big from across the pond?

#1. I will play you first round just like last year.

#2. What happens when you start with the wrong half of your army?

#1. I will play you first round just like last year.

Blackmoor, what army are you playing?

I am taking Scabby with my glad army, I know that will be fun times if him and angroth get into CC. They can both take each other out pretty quick.

wuestenfux wrote:

#1. I will play you first round just like last year.

Blackmoor, what army are you playing?

Not Space Marines.

The key to beating this army is through mobility.

Well, mech Eldar could be an option.
But the enemy hits the rear armor in cc. That makes Eldar skimmers less survivable.

Blackmoor wrote:
#1. I will play you first round just like last year.

Fair enough. You got the secret anti-daemon build going? Three mystics?

#2. What happens when you start with the wrong half of your army?

I hope there's stuff that blocks line-of-sight to my very few troop choices, and hope that the scatter rolls allow me to hide them. And then I hope that my reserve rolls aren't too horrible and I get my hitters onto the table with enough time to hit things...

In other words, I go to the losers bracket. Duh.

I figure that this army has the potential to win big if the chaos gods smile on me, and the potential to lose big if they do not. I think, realistically, that I'll absolutely crush two opponents, lose horribly one game, and have one game that's a tie. The odds of getting the heavy wave in all four games are pretty slim. It's not a list that I'm planning to win the event with, I just want to play with my big daemon.

The big Achilles heel of this army is its troops. When they come on the board they can be killed very easily even if they are not in the first wave, and you will lose any objective mission.

To make it stronger I would add more troops. It will slightly weaken your assault punch, but if it was my army I would make that trade off.

Redbeard wrote:I figure that this army has the potential to win big if the chaos gods smile on me, and the potential to lose big if they do not.

This sounds suitably Chaotic... high risk, high reward . I do hope you crush everyone in your path though... hooray for destruction!

Just so you know, my cousin is planning on running a Gargantuan Squiggoth with Boyz inside + a Battlewagon Brigade w/ 3 Units of 20 Boyz + Battlewagon + 9 Meganobz in Battlewagon + mega Armour warboos - that squiggoth may pose a problem for you big demon guy?
VH

Blackmoor wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

#1. I will play you first round just like last year.

Blackmoor, what army are you playing?

Not Space Marines.

The key to beating this army is through mobility.

This. The Valkyrie-laden Guard armies that several people are planning on will laugh, as you can't assault their fliers at all. The couple Thunderhawks I know will be present will be similarly amused. Playing games with the multiple Hierophants that show every year should be great fun - make sure you write up a BatRep if you get one of those! And, of course, the Vortex grenade mission will provide adequate opportunities for hilarity.

On the plus side, if you can keep Fateweaver alive long enough, I like your chances against the Reaver lists.

The Gladiator really is about playing with your big toys. Bring him out, stomp some 'eads, and let the standings sort themselves out.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:Just so you know, my cousin is planning on running a Gargantuan Squiggoth with Boyz inside + a Battlewagon Brigade w/ 3 Units of 20 Boyz + Battlewagon + 9 Meganobz in Battlewagon + mega Armour warboos - that squiggoth may pose a problem for you big demon guy?
VH

Uh, no. Squiggoths are way overpriced now, and no where near as dangerous as they should be. They don't have an invul save, which immediately puts them at a disadvantage. Aangrath has more attacks, higher initiative, a 4+ invul save. He hits the squiggy on 3+, it hits him on 5+. With 7+d3 attacks (+more on sixes), Aangrath would expect to kill the squiggoth in two turns. With 5 attacks, that he only gets one turn with due to initiative, squiggy would be expected to put about 2/3rds a wound back (5 attacks * 1/3 to hit * 5/6 to wound * 1/2 inv. save = 25/36).

Squiggoths are really the worst gargantuan creature, IMO. They have no invul save, a poor armour save, lackluster shooting, and poor stats. For 600 points, (2/3rds the price of aangrath) you would expect it to put more than 2/3rds of a wound on him.

Personally I would run with this.

Aangarath or whatever his name is 888

kairos 333

4 crushers- all their crap 200

4 crushers- all their crap 200

4 crushers- all their crap 200

7 plauges 105

7 plauges 105

7 plauges 105

7 plauges 105

a bit more staying power and you don't even lose that much killyness.

Ah,
I'll have to tell him old Squiggy isn't such a good idea then. Maybe he should try double Brass-scorpion chaos list then...
They get 4 S10 attacks at decent initiative, and If one dies its doomsday reactor will blow half you army off the Table, only for the other to go charging in, hacking what left apart in a storm of violence.
VH

What about:

Ann'Ggrath
Fateweaver
4 bloodcrushers + upgrades
4 bloodcrushers + upgrades
3 flamers
6 plaguebearers + icon
6 plaguebearers
6 horrors + Bolt
6 horrors + Bolt
5 horrors + Bolt

Means I need to go and buy some horrors, but the handful of bolts of change should give me a little more game against flyers, and it does boost my number of troop options.

Of course, this does add three extra kill points to the army, and makes several of the other kill points easier to earn. I can't see it taking a lot to kill six horrors or three flamers. I cannot do a third unit of bloodcrushers+upgrades, as I have neither the models nor the time to prep them. I can make two 8-bloodcrusher units with full upgrades, but I just don't have the extra set of icon/banner/leader.

Maybe, but i still think a Tau Manta Cadre would beat you - it'll take about 4 turns to nuke Ann'ggrath, and then I just drop on an objective or 3 and sit tight, alll the while blowing the heck out of the fateweaver. Also, if they do a 'kill the most expensive thing' mission, I can kill Ann'ggrath and then disnegage - leaving you unable to win!
VH

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:Maybe, but i still think a Tau Manta Cadre would beat you - it'll take about 4 turns to nuke Ann'ggrath, and then I just drop on an objective or 3 and sit tight, alll the while blowing the heck out of the fateweaver. Also, if they do a 'kill the most expensive thing' mission, I can kill Ann'ggrath and then disnegage - leaving you unable to win!

The Manta has problems of its own. It is extremely unlikely that a Manta-based list will be able to complete all the objectives in a given mission (not enough independently-operating scoring units), meaning it probably won't make it to the top tables.

Matchups dictate the outcome of the gladiator.