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Hi all i am trying to organise a 2250 empire list so i can start buying models, I have put this one up as im looking for feed back on it as it is my thrid attempt and think it is ok havent had the chance to playtest using temps yet. The idea is of a Nuln army, i think the empire needs all the guns it can get when dealing with a world full or monsters and giants. I also just like the idea and look of a Nuln army. any feed back would be appreciated

Emipre army 2250

Lords = 231
Arch Lector
Great weapon
Shroud of Magnus
(5+ ward sv. & magic res. 2)
Icon of Magnus
(Char and unit immune to fear)
Armour of Metoric Iron
(1+ armour Sv.)
----
---In spearmen unit

Heroes = 428
1 Captain of the empire
Full plate mail
Battle Standard Bearer
Griffon Standard
(Doubles rank bonus for CR)
----
-----In swordmen unit

Battle Wizard
level 2 wizard
(lore of metal)
2 x Dispel scrolls
----
---In handgunner Unit

Battle Wizard
level 2 wizard
(lore of fire)
Von Horstmanns Speculum
Wizards staff
---
----In archer Unit

Core Units =888
20 Flaggellants
Prophet of Doom


25 Spearmen
Shields
Full command

Detachment
10 Halberdiers


25 Swordsmen
Full command

Detachment
10 Halberdiers

14 Handgunners
Full command

12 Archers
Marksman

Special Units=479
1 Great Cannon

1 Great Cannon

1 Mortar

10 Pistoliers
Full Command
Outrider with Repeat. Pistol


Rare Units =220
1 Helblaster Volley Gun

1 Helblaster Volley Gun

total= 2246

Men= 145 (inc. warmachine crew)
Warmachines= 5
Power dice= 6
Dispel Dice= 6
Dispel scrolls= 2

My main thoughts are maybe getting some knights or more blocks of infantry not to sure.

Hey here are some thoughts

mount the Lector, barded warhorse and drop the armour(Take the enchanted shield if you want), this is were the speculum should be if you want to get the most out of it, you definitely don't want your wizard in combat.

BSB should be mounted as well, you've got lots of ranks already so take a ward save and a magic sword to make him more resiliant

drop the command on the handgunners (maybe musician) drop a hellblaster and take some knights, you're relying solely on your shooting to take things down and all it takes is one bad shooting phase to ruin you day. Knights will give you some striking power

Too many pistoliers! 6 is plenty, drop the outrider, just a musician thanks

I would drop the archers and turn the 14 man unit of handgunners into 2-12 man units

Cannons and mortar are awesome!

Hope that helps, knowing what armies you'll face more often can also help dial in the list

PapaSmurf

take another scroll for the 2nd wizard

take swordsmen rather than spearmen, they are just too good not too. Your detachments work better 9 strong (3x3)

IMO this list would allow you to do more

Archlector
Barded WH HA, Enchanted Shield, Shroud of Magnus, VHS

Captain
BSB Barded WH, FP, Sword of Battle, White Cloak

Battle Wizard
lvl2 2 x scroll

Battle wizard
lvl2 scroll, wizard staff

25 x Swordsmen
full command detachment - 9 x halberdiers

25 x Swordsmen
full command detachment - 9 x halberdiers

25 x Flagellants

12 x Hand gunners
Musician


12 x Hand gunners
Musician

6 x Knights
Full command

6 x Pistoliers
Musician

Cannon

Cannon

Mortar

Hellblaster

2249 total

6 PD
6 DD
3 scrolls

4 warmachines
3 infantry and 2 shooters
2 cav

allows you to be competitive in all phases

PapaSmurf

Thanx for the tips papasmurf, the extra dispel scroll i was already think of putting on and the pistoliers as well as the archers were there to stop/delay flankers, I read a few of the WHFB posts i thought there are a few armies that can get small units to the flanks or your army quickly ie fellbats? thats what i gethered anyway but i may be completely wrong which wouldnt suprise, would the knights and smaller unit of pistoliers be able to deal with flankers well?

Shall attempt to explain a few of my choices with the list, would love more feed back as i may have misunderstood some things and thus the reasons for my choices flawed.

I had the archers to deal with flankers as they can move and shoot ie reform to face the flankers get a few shots of then get charged and dont recieve a negative for a flank charge, and I didnt think handguns where a move and shoot gun... cant find my rule book at the moment so i cant check that out

I had the lector on foot with the spearmen for the hate and prayers as well as the immune to fear item, i guess the main question with this strategy is how often will i encounter fear causing oppenants? from the experience at my flgs that is a far few, then i guess the other question is how well do large blocks of empire troops stand upto fear tests?

The only other thing i wanted to comment on was the BSB with the rank bonus banner in the swordsmen, i Know they have enough ranks to draw or maybe win a combat but would the banner allow them to make sure they win by large margins? or i guess my main reason is for use against the undead, for dont they take however wounds they lost combat by?

thats about it thanx again for the advice I will pretty much be doing everything you have suggested as I already wanted Knights and putting the lector with them makes sense it prob only the BSB im unsure of i didnt want to drop the HBVG but i may have to, misfires make it quite interesting indeed

And a STank is something im just not going to take if the issue arises on this thread, i dont mind it but dosent fit with the fluff i want for the army, steam tanks belonging to the school of egineers which is in Altdorf not Nuln

Another question I nearly forgot is are the Halberdiers the best unit to use as detachments for the swordsmen? should i use spearmen, free company etc?

Shall post the redone list after i get back from work.

TalosNB wrote:how often will i encounter fear causing oppenants?

Well all undead, chaos daemons, chaos knights, some elite units from almost all army books cause fear or can add the cause fear from character or standard. I would say that fear causing is one of the most common special rule in FB.

When I said to put the lector and the BSB on horses I didn't mean for you to put them in with the knights, keep them with the infantry, I think they work better there anyway. If you want something to go with the knights then a warrior priest with the icon of magnus is something I never leave home without. Fear is one of the elements of WFB that I feel the empire has some difficulty with so anything that makes me avoid that dreaded psych test is gold!(icon, grandmaster, light spells etc)

I like halberdiers but free company can also work, actually best of all worlds would be swordsmen detachments so they have the same strengths as the parent.

you've still got one hellblaster and that will help control a flank nobody really wants to charge into its range in case it volleys 30 shots at str5

I run a funky list with knights and a stank that is fun to run with every once and a while PM me if you'd like a look.

PapaSmurf

Here is the changed list so far, will hopefully playtest reasonable soon and find if the mix of troops and equipment on lords is best.
the only other thing i could think of changing was having either Luthor Huss or Ludwig S. Helm to replace my current BSB/captain of the empire its tempting to use Ludwig with his special banner but just not sure as they would certainly eat into my pts a bit would prob have to scavenge points from the knight unit, but thats still a thought at the moment. so any more/new thoughts on this list?

Oh and a question with concerns to magical armour, can magical armour be combined with ordinary armour all the time to recieve an enhanced save or does it require the "can be combined with other equipment.." to get a better save?

Emipre army 2250

Lords = 247
Arch Lector
Heavy Armour
Warhorse
Barded
Enchanted Shield
(5+ Armour save)
Shroud of Magnus
(5+ ward sv. & magic res. 2)
Von Horstmanns Speculum
----
---In spearman unit

Heroes = 432
1 Captain of the empire
Full plate mail
Warhorse
barding
Battle Standard Bearer
Sword of Battle
( +1 Attack)
The White Cloak
(5+ ward save, 2+ against flaming attacks)
----
-----In swords man unit

Battle Wizard
level 2 wizard
(lore of metal)
2 x Dispel scrolls
----
---In handgunner Unit

Battle Wizard
level 2 wizard
(lore of fire)
Dispel Scroll
Wizards staff
---
----In 2nd Handgunner unit

Core Units =1064
25 Flaggellants
Prophet of Doom


25 Swordsmen
Full command
Detachment
9 Halberdiers

25 Swordsmen
Full command
Detachment
9 Halberdiers


12 Handgunners
Musician


12 Handgunners
Musician


6 Knights
Musician
Standard Bearer


Special Units=390
1 Great Cannon

1 Great Cannon

1 Mortar

6 Pistoliers
Musician


Rare Units =110
1 Helblaster Volley Gun

total= 2243

Warmachines= 4
Power dice= 6
Dispel Dice= 6
Dispel scrolls= 3


@Papasmurf: I went with halberdiers as my detachments because i wanted alittle variation amongst the rank and file of the army so they dont all have swords and shields.

TalosNB wrote:can magical armour be combined with ordinary armour all the time to recieve an enhanced save or does it require the "can be combined with other equipment.." to get a better save?

You cannot have several suits of armor or shields etc on, but otherwise the armors stack unless otherwise stated in the entry.

Kreuger shook his head. It seemed that no matter the season, the Empire was going to war with something or someone. Worse, here he was, reviewing the mustered soldiery of an Imperial clergyman. Kreuger knew that the Cult of Sigmar knew he did not believe in the mystical faith of the church. It was only the fact that the old man carried with him the Leave of the Emperor that the clergy had not strung him up for his lack of faith. The old man wished Paetricia were with him… she always knew how to deal with other clergy.

Coughing the nervousness out of his throat, the old man began, “Your Grace, as was your request, I took the past few days to review your faithful, and determine if there might be a better way to organize and arm your flock. I have the following suggestions to make.

“First, your Grace, is about your own accoutrements. I must say, I wonder why you have with you glasses made by the optometrist von Horstmann. Your own battle prowess should serve you well, especially since you are under the protection of the Shroud of Magnus. I… must also wonder why you have chosen to lead the company of spearmen. One of your stature, and abilities, would actually better serve in your small squadron of knights.”

Trying to avoid the piercing gaze of the Arch Lector, Kreuger shuffles blocks, used to represent companies of soldiers, along the map of the southeastern Empire. “This is a fine map, your Grace. Um, your standard bearer… the one who carries the huge icon of your bishops crux. I would like to make a suggestion. He bears with him a blade empowered for battle… but not for strength. I have often found that you need to make your hits count, and there are a lot of foes and monsters who either wear thick armor, or have a thick hide. I would suggest, instead, to see if you could find a sword empowered with the strength of a bull. If you need, I have been given permission by my employer to rent out a Sword of Might, blessed by the Priestess Senatoriae herself. Such a blade would ensure that, once your captain hits, his strikes will cleave through the thickest of plates.”

“I also must ask, your Grace… I understand the Church’s policy of magickery… but… you have with you a pair of traveled sorcerers. Wouldn’t you be better served by a pair of warrior priests? Or, if you wish to show a palm branch to the Schools of Magic, and retain the services of magicians, I would suggest, instead, hiring a pair of novices. Humans, no matter how much we study, are simply poor wizards. Whatever it is you need to be a good sorcerer, we just lack. But… we are decent at dispelling the winds of magic. A pair of novices still provides you very good protection against enemy spellcraft, and saves you some 70 silver Imperials. Coin you could use to gain a Marksman with your pistoliers, or another two or three knights. I also have to wonder about the alchemist and pyromancer you have hired… while they’ll state to their graves that fire and metal are totally different magics… they really are copies of each other. Perhaps you could be better served by getting a druid or perhaps an astromancer. Those magicks would add an element of randomness to your battle that your opponent may not be able to counter.”

Sighing, Kreuger continued, “Your Grace, while I understand that those insane zealots often follow you around… I must, in order to fully review your militia, state that they won’t accomplish much. They may bog down several enemy companies until they are completely destroyed, but they simply lack the still to use those flails they carry… and once they do swing them, I’ve often watched the flagellants drop the flails, and just punch with fists, or attacks with rocks and sticks… I just wanted to bring that to your attention.”

“Your companies of swordsmen will serve you well. I watched them drill in the town square, and they are fine, professional soldiers. I would, though… leave the halberdiers at home. I know that the Empire values the pole-axe as its signature… but it simply isn’t enough. If I may, I noticed two, small bands of ruffians that trail along your army… perhaps you could hire these freebooters for a few silvers, and let your halberdiers maintain city watch duties. Doing so would save you several silver Imperials you could use elsewhere.”

Pushing some of the blocks around marked “marksmen”, Kreuger said, “I would like to offer a suggestion about your squads of handgunners. You might be well served by getting a marksman for those dozen men, and arming the marksman with a brace of pistols. While you will lose a bit of long-range punch, you add a dimension not often seen in handgunner squads. Mobility. Those pistols are easy to fire and reload, and can be done so on the move. Also, when your handgunners get charged, your gunners will often hold their shot till the marksman fires… giving them a couple extra seconds to aim. If you lack pistols, I have brought a few with me, I have been given permission to loan out for the Church to use. Good, quality pistols, from the gunsmiths von Kolt and Berretti. Just something to consider, your Grace.”

“I only have a couple more comments, your Grace, and then I shall be done. I apologize for my long-windedness… I tend to try to include as many details as I can think of.” Nervously smiling at his own joke, the old engineer continues, “I have seen your artillery, and it will serve you well. I would like to make two quick thoughts on your units of cavalry. First, your Grace, on the squad of knights you have, they do not have a First Knight. You may wish to see if the local chapter would be willing to offer the services of a First Knight… they might as for a few silvers as a donation to their chapter house, should they offer though. Also… with such a small squad of knights, perhaps you should see if you could actually acquire the services of one or two additional knights… giving the size to be eight strong, instead of six. Being larger would make them more likely to shatter units on the charge, more resilient to enemy missile fire, and a bit braver against units that can make even the bravest of soldiers fearful.”

“As for your pistoliers, I would like to suggest you obtain the services of an Outridder Champion for them. His skills with pistols would make them deadlier in combat. And, if you have the extra silver, you should equip the Champion with a repeater pistol… a highly effective, short-range, firearm. I even have one that I could rent out to you, for just a nominal fee to cover the consumables.”

Scratching the few strands of hair on his bald head, the old engineer concluded, “If you have no questions, your Grace, I will take my leave. I am still enroute to meeting my employer in the Border Princes.”

Must say thats the first time I have had a comment made into a story, loved reading it though LtCraggs thanx for taking the time to type it, i know i wouldnt have had the patience to

-the halberdiers are quite possible going to get changed to something else, most likely that will be free company, just didnt want them as yet more swordsmen
-would love more knights but will need to get some points from somewhere same with the knight champion and pistoliers
the knights are as a support unit that will most likely be with the flaggies or possible a bait unit
-As for the Lector I wanted him with the swordsmen so he passes on the magic resistence to them and im more confident of their abilities with him leading them, as im concerned about the swordsmen holding then i am of the knights as if my sowrdsmen fail
thats a larger chunk out of my defense line then i would like.
-I am unsure of the speculum on him but i it is really there just case of a challenger hero in and enemy army or wotever squad the unit is facing off and while his fighting abilities arent terrible they arent that great either
-While i agree with most of the thoughts on upgrades for the units i just dont have the spare points unless i dump a unit really
and there arent any i really wish to drop