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Hey there. I ask this question after hearing from more then one person... usually after I beat them, that 3 exorcist tanks is "abusive"

In your opinion is it? and to what degree?

To bring up an old quote from Mauleed:

Play better.

Centurian99 wrote:To bring up an old quote from Mauleed:

Play better.

haha I am with you here.

i understand that retributors are viewed as subpar, but the 3 exorcist lists is a lil boring, then again, the randomness of the shots from the exorcist make up for it.

i cant hate on it too much, i usually run 9 kans in my orks lists.

I voted kind of. It's a good tank that really excels in the modern environment and is actually pretty cheap. that said, we see as many as we do because it's the only really good ranged anti-tank in the list, and it's also the only really good heavy support choice in the list. Retributors are actually pretty decent, but heavy bolter fire just isn't what Sisters need from their heavy slots.

The kind of people that call things cheesy are going to find it cheesy: it's good, it's cheap, it's usually spammed, and it's got great synergy with the rest of the list.

Honestly I voted kind of not because, I think it's cheesy, I would gladly play it but, because it's spaming something and that's generally the rule of thumb on wether or not something is cheesy. Chaos spams lash and oblits orks spam lootas or nob bikers or battewagons or even straight up boyz nids spam TMC's dark eldar spam dark lances these things are considered cheesy in the general public.

I personally would not mind in the least playing it but, I do thnk it's cheesy to a VERY small degree in comparison to other lists.

On the other hand I know people who think 3 russes are cheesy in a guard army...

But I do agree with Centurian99 that's truely QFT

yermom wrote:orks spam lootas or nob bikers or battewagons or even straight up boyz

while i agree on loota, nob biker and BW spam being an issue. i will never bash anyone (any codex) for maximizing their troop choices.

There's no such thing as cheesy. Whatever you put in a list is whatever you put in a list, and you should be able to put in whatever you want.

The issue lies with game balance, and that GW needs to do a better job balancing and testing(you know, perhaps they should actually... do that one) things before they release them. If something's obviously overpowered, people are going to use it. And there's nothing wrong with making use of something because it's useful. To do otherwise would simply be ignorant.

Well, I think it's important to keep in mind that the OP clearly plays in an environment where comp/theme/cheese matter, so this isn't a moot question. I think that people should bring what they want, but a lot of folks disagree.

Let's spin the question like this: If I agreed to play friendly 1500pt game to try out some fun new lists, and my opponent starts out by dropping three exorcists, then I'm going to be a little annoyed. That's not a fun list! By that measure, it's a bit of a cheesy unit.

By that standard, nearly any unit that does noticeably better than a nearly randomly selected unit is "cheesy," but the Exorcist tank is a "very good unit."

The Exorcists for Sisters of Battle play the same role as pre-5th Gunfexes for Nids: Long Range Anti-tank. They are the only things in their respective codexi that can do the job and as such are nigh-manditory.

It's a good tank. In another codex it might be overpowered, but certain 'dexes let you be good at certain things. I don't begrudge the sisters their good tank.

I'm a Tau player and I don't expect people to begrudge me my railguns.

If you can't handle it, then dedicate firepower to destroy it.

Rmeju

No. Play less horrible people.

I think they make SoB more playable aginst other power armies. Besides them using melta bombs, it's their only anti vehicle.
They require LOS. The weapon is str 8. aginst vehicles it is 8 + 1d6. 14 max. The land raider has armor 14 (necron tower also?)
The best they can get is a Glancing hit. The exorcist has a front armor of 13. Other than that the rocket launcher is mounted on a "rolling coffin" (Rhino).

If SoB players would tell how they use the Exorist (tactics). They will be less of a threat.
How to deploy, when & how to move them.
I see them as a Fire Magnet.

I voted no, myself.

I've never played as Sisters, but I kinda like the army. A friend at the FLGS started them recently, and I actually have encouraged him to get a third. As others have pointed out, there are relatively few choices in the pure Sisters list that really stand out and demand to be played by anyone who hopes to field a competitive army.

While Exorcists have the potential to be truely nasty if the roll for number of shots is consistently high, it also has the same chance of rolling consistently low. Really, each one will average hitting with two S8 AP1 shots per turn. If the opponent has lots of light vehicles, yes that sucks, but I think it is far from overpowering against the broad variety of all the armies out there. For example, my Dark Eldar don't care about the Exorcists; I'd fear Heavy Bolter Retributors more.

NO WAY.

Its the only long range heavy hitter in a sisters list, tell anyone who calls it cheese to sack up.

Cheese = It beat me, therefore I don't like it... Most of the time anyway.

I played once against a sister list and that list got two of them. They were rather nasty, but my lists isn't what is considered tournament ready. They blasted my Wraithlord away and killed some dire avengers, but then one got shot up by fire dragons and the other one by my falcon. It was even.

It's just a good tank, like many others in 40k.

Greets
Schepp himself

Fafnir wrote:There's no such thing as cheesy. Whatever you put in a list is whatever you put in a list, and you should be able to put in whatever you want.

The issue lies with game balance, and that GW needs to do a better job balancing and testing(you know, perhaps they should actually... do that one) things before they release them. If something's obviously overpowered, people are going to use it. And there's nothing wrong with making use of something because it's useful. To do otherwise would simply be ignorant.

How strange that you say there is no such thing as cheese...and then give the exact definition of cheesy units as they exist in 40K.

If a unit/combo is poorly balanced and, therefore, more powerful than it's points indicete; it is cheesy.

Cheesy != Illegal. It means a player is over-leveraging imbalance in the game system. This is often seen as douchery unless all players involved agree ahead of time that it is acceptable.

Cheese does not = Illegal. If a codex allows it, it is legal. You do not need consent to field any unit out of a codex unless it specifically says so. To imply otherwise is to cheat, changing the rules to suit you.

Douchery, maybe, but that is in the eye of the beholder.

Some people like playing the hardest lists against the hardest lists, others dont. You cant really draw a line and say this side is non cheese, this side is total cheese. It just isn't possible to do as opinions vary.

This argument has been beaten to death a million times, and wont be resolved. It just comes down to the individual players.

!= is generally viewed as the "does not equal" sign, in internet chat speak. Since there's no easy way to make that symbol.

I only call things cheesy when I start comparing them.

Cyclone missle launcher? Not cheesy. Compare cyclone missle launcher to chaos reaper assault cannon? Now it's cheesy. 5 point combi-skorchas? Meh, fine. Wait, chaos marines pay 10 for a combi-FLAMER, while orks pay 5 for a combi-HEAVY flamer? Now THAT is cheesy.

Thunderfire cannon, 100 points, 4 S6 blast templates. 3 Killakans with grotzookas, 135 points, SIX S6 blast templates at almost the same BS, way way more survivable, and DEADLY as all get out in close combat? Good lord killakans are cheesy now!

This is an effect of GW only working on one, maybe two codeci at a time.

IMO, you cannot balance something if you do not even measure them at the same time in a controlled environment.

Would it really be too difficult to write 'dexes all at the same time?

There is only 1 reason why people think its cheezy....

Ppl tend to only remember the times when they fire D6 6 shots, and never remember all the 1s and 2s .

Its a real good tank for what you get but there are units/tanks/MC/IC/whatever far worse out there in 40k than the exorcist.

Now, to be slightly off-topic, I pose a question: how does one know where the line between good and cheese truly lies? Take Exorcists: if you say 3 is cheese, is 2? what about 1? How did you decide which was, and which was not? Is 20 nob bikers cheese? how about 15? 10? 5? The line is probably drawn in a slightly different place for each and every person: it's why I don't think cheese is substantial issue.

My opinion has always been this: you won't rag on a player for powerful tactics or intelligent command of his army, so why should you rag on his list-writing skills? By all means, give him hell for fielding an army that's boring to play/play against, but don't insult him for bringing a good army.

I can agree with that, but I personally think that if a unit can reliably hit above it's points without needing lucky rolls or support from another unit, a la nob bikers, than it counts as cheese.
My personal limit is when an army is built around fielding a perticular unit en mass, rather than having an army work in concert.

At the moment, its not cheesy.

When they finally redo the sister's codex (*ahem*) they'll decide that d6 shots is far too complicated for Alessio Cavatore and the rest of the 6-year-olds at the design studio and make it heavy 4 like Eldar scatter lasers.

Then spamming them will be cheesy

Unless it's a chaos exorcist. Then it'll be d3, and blow up if you roll a 1.

In the immortal words of warseer, "just use tactics".

Seriously though, it's a legal option in the codex, so it's good to go. If you find yourself trouncing your buddies, I'd suggest dropping one so they'll STFU and play, but in no way shape or form do I think 3 is cheesey.

yermom wrote:Honestly I voted kind of not because, I think it's cheesy, I would gladly play it but, because it's spaming something and that's generally the rule of thumb on wether or not something is cheesy. Chaos spams lash and oblits orks spam lootas or nob bikers or battewagons or even straight up boyz nids spam TMC's dark eldar spam dark lances these things are considered cheesy in the general public.

QFT

Exorcists are the only real long range heavy weaponry available to a Sisters force, and so on their own they can't really be considered cheesy, even though they ARE very good vehicles.

But spamming any great unit is generally a pretty unimaginitive way of playing, and is generally considered cheesy. It works for anything - Nob Bikers, Obliterators, Land Raiders, Lash Princes - they're all fine to include in your army, but THREE of them?

That's a bit cheesy...

Exorcists are the only thing sisters have in that role, and it's decent.

Granted, they became a *little* better under the new damage chart with AP1 and d6 hits, but they still have an 11 side armor and 10 in the back.

I'm just happy to run into tanks that are killable. 14AV all around isn't any fun.