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Hello all. I am beginning a tyranid army and would like advice from experienced players. I have only played a small number of games with tau and one proxy tyranid list game, so help is appreciated. Here is my list for 1850pt games.

HQ
Hive Tyrant - twinlinked devourers x 2, enhanced senses, toxin sacs, adrenal glands - 125 pts
Tyrant Guard - x 2 both with Lash whips - 90 pts

Broodlord - feeder tendrils, flesh hooks - 76pts; with retinue - genestealer x8 with felsh hooks - 136 pts

Troops
Termagants x14 - 84 pts
Spinegaunts x 16 - 80 pts
Spinegaunts x 16 - 80 pts
Hormagaunts x 24 - adrenal glands (+Init), adrenal glnads (+WS), toxin sacs - 336 pts
Genestealers x 8 - scuttlers - 152 pts

Elite
Tyranid warriors (CC) x 3 - leaping, scything talons x 2, extended carapace, toxins sacs, flesh hooks - 114 pts
Tyranid warriors (shooty) x 6 - barbed strangler x 1, deathspitter x 5, scything talons x 6, enhanced senses - 170 pts
Lictor - 80 pts

Heavy Support
Carnifex (CC) - scything talons x2, toxis miasma, adrenal glands (both Init and WS), Reinforced Chitin - 134 pts
Carnifex (shooty) - barbed strangler, twin-linked deathspitters, enhanced senses - 128 pts
Zoanthrope x1 - warp blast, synapse - 65 pts

I would like to know if experienced players see obvious weaknesses in this list that I could correct. Keep in mind I realize the problems with hormagaunts in 5th ed, but I like the models and the unit and think they should be part of a list. Thanks

I personally like wings on the TL Dev tyrant instead of guards.

Brood lord group is great don't change a thing.

as for troops drop the hormies for 2 more groups of genesteakers. and drop the termies for a group of 8 spine guants without number (to help capture objectives)

I always prefer Genestealers with feeder tendrils and sything talons so if you have extra points I would upgrade one of the GS groups.

Drop the leaping warriors... while I admit they are cool they are useless in a group of 3 and are very expensive

the unit of 6 warriors is great except the enhanced senses is a waste of points. -1 inch off the scatter is peanuts.

Drop the melee carnifex for a 2 TL dev fexs (one in the free elite spot)

increase the number of zoans if you have the points Warp blast is your only tried and true tank buster.

Thanks for the input. I dont want to have many more stealers than I already have. Plus I realize the Hormagaunts have problems (cost, effectiveness) but I want them in the army - they fit with what I think nids should have. I took a CC carnifex to help with anti-tank or to attack certain units. You figure it is better to have more Zoeys than a CC fex? Interesting points about the Warriors. I will have to look at adjusting my list.

Its far better to have zoays for AT than a cc fex. it will be turn 3 before the CC fex will have a shot at assaulting, during that time the zoey will have at least crippled the tank in question, and if nothing else kept it stunned so it can't blast you every turn, and all of that is assuming you are playing against a stationary target. If you play against eldar or any other army with skimmers of fast tanks you will never touch them in CC. if you don't want Genestealers that's your call, and taking the hormies is the same way, at least take them bare bones, for the cost of all the upgrades on them take some more guants instead.

now to drive home the point on leaping warriors, they cost you 114 points for 3, so what do you get for that? A unit that assaults on turn 2, with 12 attacks at WS4, S5, I5, (correct me if I am wrong I am doing this from memory) nothing that ignores armour. So say your fighting SM (the most common army) you hit 6 times, wound 4, and they save 2.66, so 1.33 dead marine. You following me so far? Lets not even worry about the attacks back... I assure you its not pretty.


Ok now lets take that 114 points and spend it on another elite choice:

Dakka Fex:
2 x TL devourer
Enhanced Senses
Flesh hooks (just to make it an even 114, I really wouldn't wate the point on it)

Lets take it from the beginning:

Turn 1: Move 6" and fire if the opponent was dumb enough to place his units on the line. Lets assume its the same SM we assaulted earlier. So 8 shots at BS 3 re-rolling the misses equals 6 hits, now they are Str6 and re-roll to wound, so unless you roll a 1 twice in a row all will wound. SM save 4, so 2 dead marines.

Turn 2: repeat


In conclusion:

3 x Leaping warriors = 1.33 dead MEQ on the charge
1 x Dakka Fex = 2 dead MEQ every round, as long as something is within 18".

I will let you make up your mind

Please listen to Cithomps. I wasn't going to respond because he is right, but I really wouldn't ignore his advice.

Another point, if you are keeping the leaping warriors to get into combat with the hormies, any smart player will inflict their hits on the hormies, forcing a lot of no retreat wounds on the warriors AND hormies.

Also, your list seems to lack anti tank. Lose the lictor and cc fex, get some vemon cannons in your list and another zoanthrope. Venom cannon stuns, zoanthropes move in for the kill.

Fixed my math to be more accurate.

I see your points. I am going to adjust my list, replace the CC fex and leaping warriors; get more Zoeys. I do want to keep the Hormies but will consider the upgrades. You make a good point about removing enhanced senses from the shooty warriors because all you get is 1" for the cost. Are enhanced senses also not worthwhile for my fex with barbed strangler and deathspitters? Seems the same problem to me.

your fex should never bother with a deathspitter... honestly there are only 2 types of shooting fex:

Anti-Infantry:
2 x TL devourer

Anti-Tank:
Venom cannon
Barbed Strangler

and both NEED enhanced. Also unless you are using it as an eilite +1 W for 15pts is mandatory.

I like the reinforced chitin for +1W, but I thought I read in a number of forums that some people like a fex with strangler and TL deathspitter. I have considered the VC with BS combo, but many people complain that in 5th ed it is much less effective for the cost.

The problem with putting a deathspitter on a fex is that it changes its roll from anti-tank to anti-infantry, A Dakkafex is by far a better infantry killer, and with a BS 2 the chances of you getting a solid hit with deathspitters are slim.


VC and BS while in 5th the amount of damage this combo does is reduced it still does not change the fact that 'Nids have little to no long range anti tank. If you are relying on 1 zoan and one cc fex (who will never even touch a skimmer of fast Vehicle) to stop a tank like a single waveserpent, or LRBT you are nuts. To put it in perspective in a 1500pt game my eldar run 3 waveserpents in 1850 I run 3 WS and 2 Fire Prisms...

Thanks again for the advice. I am going to use a VC/BS fex and increase the number of Zoeys for better anti-tank.

I've found that you don't need the VC/BS fex if you use warriors. The reasoning is that with everything in the list having a cover save (warriors giving the MC's cover) you don't need to worry about stunning vehicles as much which is all that a VC can do. I run 4 carnies w/BS's and scything talons and have yet to run into a major issue. Though i will say that for lighter anti-tank i've got 10 st6 deathspitters, 12 st5 devouver shots, and 8 st6 devourer shots so i don't worry to much about light mech.

The guy above be has yet to play Eldar or any other highly competitive mobile force. Lets take a look at his choice:

half/half Fex:

scything talons
Barbed strangler

Turn 1:
Walk 6" shot at tank miss 1/3 the time.

Turn 2:
Walk 6" shot at tank miss 1/3 the time.

Turn 3:
Walk 6" shot at tank miss 1/3 the time.
Assault if your opponent is a slow and did not move his tank at all.

Assuming that you are playing an idiot that gives you a likely kill. If not (most likely the case in a tourney) he will move flat out away from you (might as well teat that as a crew shaken).


Gun-Fex
Venom cannon
Barbed strangler
+1BS

Turn 1: Fire from cover VC two shots at 1/2 chance to hit so one glance. Barbed Strangler 1/3 chance to hit.

Turn 2: Fire from cover VC two shots at 1/2 chance to hit so one glance. Barbed Strangler 1/3 chance to hit.

Turn 3: Fire from cover VC two shots at 1/2 chance to hit so one glance. Barbed Strangler 1/3 chance to hit.


Ok so lets add up the results for 3 turns:

Half-fex:
1 BS hit (assume pen on armour value <12 and glance 12-13, nothing on 14)

Gun-fex

3 VC hits (assume Glance on >13 and Glance 50% on 14)
1 BS hit (assume pen on armour value <12 and glance 12-13, nothing on 14)


Ok your saying that's all well and good but the half-fex will be much better in assaults.... wrong again.

Half-fex:
4 attacks on the charge, hitting 1/2 and wounding 5/6

gun-fex:
3 attacks on the charge, hitting 1/2 and wounding 5/6

So every 2 round the Half-fex will get an extra wound in. not great odds in my book.

so now you say..."Maybe your right on that but I save 30 points"

That's true but show me were you can spend that 30 points to get a guaranteed Glancing hit every round on most vehicles.

First off I find your statement inaccurate and slightly offensive. You don't know where or what i've played.

I've played a dark eldar force w/11 raiders in it. I've played an all mobile eldar force w/6 serpents/prisms. Your forgetting that yes you scatter when you miss but if you place the template right your chance of landing on the vehicle are well over 50%. How many serpents are we talking about? Your numbers are ridiculous and false but i did note the whole premise was based on using warriors. Good thing you read my post