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Hey guys getting ready for my first tourney as Eldar!

-----HQ----->903

Jetseer
runes of warding
runes of witnessing
Spirit stones
Fortune
Mind war
180

Jetseer
runes of witnessing
spirit stones
mind war
doom
155

Jetlocks x 10
Enhance
Embolden
destructor x 8
Singing spears x 6
568


----Troops----> 608

Jetbikes x 6
Suricat x 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
Suricat x 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
Suricat x 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
Suricat x 2
152

----Heavy---->480

Fire prism
Holo feilds
Spirit stones
160

Fire prism
Holo feilds
Spirit stones
160

Fire prism
Holo fields
Spirit stones
160

Tactics are basically as follows:

VS Horde:

Jetseers stay hidden fire prisms lay into them as much as possible when they get close the jetseers leap out and destructomunch/assault. guardian jetbikes stay in reserve and support the jetseers as they come in.

VS MEQ

Prisims advance to keep their cover save firing every turn jetseers stay in support range of them untill they hit the middle point at which they turbo boost and eat a target of opportunity using to the fireprisims to form a firewall between the assult and the rest of his army. Guardians stay in reserve once agin

VS Demons: Laugh


Anywho what do you guys think? Any modifications I should be looking at? I welcome all C&C

Thanks!

Why not drop 1 prism and spirit stones off of the other 2 and drop1 warlock and 3 more destructersand runes of witnessing exchange doom for fortune and buy 9 more warlocks to accompany the second farseer? This will probably leave you about 150ish over (i'm guesstimating) but i'm sure you could drop a few locks if need be.

OOPS double post.

I have another list that comprises of more locks but the problem I found is getting outshot, whenever I field fire prisms I count on one being stunned a round so with only two it can be problematic. charging in with a seer mob can give you mixed results if not supported it can get eaten by closely grouped hostiles, but with two operational fire prisms you make them move where you want to or just kill em if they refuse.

Definitely lose the spears. You NEED those attacks in combat. I had an army at one point that was two 9 man seer councils on bikes and I was always grateful for the attacks.

And as I was just informed, Runes of Witnessing raises the chance of a perils of the warp, and doesnt increase your chances of successfully by much at all. Also, your embolden works on your psychic tests, so its really a moot point.

I would also split the councils up, otherwise your council looks good.

Make the Jetbike units 9 or 10x with 3 shuricats, plus warlock. Much less kill points that way.

Also, drop everything on the prisms. If you are taking prisms, three for like 360 is a steal, and you want to just let them hover in terrain, getting a save. If they cant see anything, dont move them, just link them. A linked shot is better than two unlinked shots against armor anyway.

EDIT: This is the list (original written by Stelek) You wont find a better jetbike list

Farseer SS Fortune Guide (Doom is pointless, biker shuricats need guide)
~8 warlocks 1 enhance 1 embolden destructor to fit

Farseer SS Fortune Guide
~8 warlocks 1 enhance 1 embolden destructor to fit

9 Jetbikes 3 shuricats 1 warlock, embolden ( A MUST!)

9 Jetbikes 3 shuricats 1 warlock, embolden

Prism
Prism
Prism

It rocks!

EDIT 2: With this army, your tactic vs almost everyone is fortune and turbo boost first turn, assault second.

GMMStudios wrote:Definitely lose the spears. You NEED those attacks in combat. I had an army at one point that was two 9 man seer councils on bikes and I was always grateful for the attacks.

The extra attacks are very useful. I like to keep a spear or two, for use against other people's fast-moving skimmers.

And as I was just informed, Runes of Witnessing raises the chance of a perils of the warp, and doesnt increase your chances of successfully by much at all. Also, your embolden works on your psychic tests, so its really a moot point.

Yes, RoWitnessing increases the chance of perils (from 2/36 to 15/216). But it is a nontrivial reduction in failure, especially when Fortune is as crucial to a list like this as it is (from 3/36 (8.33%) to 4/216 (1.85%)). If you plan on running the Farseers attached to the Warlocks at all times, you can rely on Embolden. But there are times when that may not be the case.

Make the Jetbike units 9 or 10x with 3 shuricats, plus warlock. Much less kill points that way.

I've been playing around with my 4e Jetbike army (no seer council). There is a fine line between "too many kill points" and "not enough scoring potential" - I haven't found it yet. But jetbikes, if you can catch them, are not hard to swat out of the sky. And quite a few units are fast enough to catch them.

Embolden warlocks are incredibly useful in the Troops choices. But they are also a little pricey. I haven't found a good balance yet - need more practice.

Farseer SS Fortune Guide (Doom is pointless, biker shuricats need guide)

This has to be a typo. Guide is useless on all the twin-linked cats; doom is nearly mandatory if you want to shoot something with the S4 guns. If the discussion is about the Shuricannons, it makes a little more sense.

EDIT 2: With this army, your tactic vs almost everyone is fortune and turbo boost first turn, assault second.

You can't Fortune & turboboost the Farseer on the same turn. (Turboboosting denies the biker all voluntary actions for the turn.) This is one of those cases where your Farseer may not stay attached to the Warlocks, which makes RoWitnessing more useful. With a single Seer council and 2 Jetlocks (both with Fortune), one can Fortune on the first turn, leaving the second free to turboboost with the council (and fortune them on turn 2, before assaulting).

I agree that you should dump the Spears, witchblades are better because of more attacks.

I agree with dumping Runes of Witnessing as well if you have embolden for the reroll thats good enough.

One seer with runes of warding is good to have some sort of defense against psychic powers like lash or null zone + sternguard which can really ruin your day.

If you have the points for it I think you should double up on embolden and enhance because of the new wound allocation rules you might lose them and they are pretty crucial.

Not sure I like Stelek's list because of the only 2 troop. The Warlock with embolden helps out a lot but I think 3 troops is really mandatory in 5th. It can be difficult to win the d3+2 objective mission with only 2 troops if the number 4 or 5 comes up.

Anti tank is also a bit lacking yes you can bash tanks with seer council but fire prisms are woefully unreliable for anti tank with the new scatter rules.

I know it ruins the jetbike theme, but I'm thinking you might want to go 10 naked dire avengers in wave serpents with missle launchers or bright lances for troops. Guardian Jetbikers are a bit vulnerable in 5th with true line of sight and this provides more anti tank.

Janthkin wrote:
You can't Fortune & turboboost the Farseer on the same turn. (Turboboosting denies the biker all voluntary actions for the turn.) This is one of those cases where your Farseer may not stay attached to the Warlocks, which makes RoWitnessing more useful. With a single Seer council and 2 Jetlocks (both with Fortune), one can Fortune on the first turn, leaving the second free to turboboost with the council (and fortune them on turn 2, before assaulting).

Yeah you can.

Fortune unit
Turboboost unit
move farseer 12
assault move farseer 6

Its not a perfect "fortune and turboboost whole unit" but at least you are still getting a 3+ rerollable cover save

EDIT: Sorry meant to edit and single post...

Kirika wrote:

Not sure I like Stelek's list because of the only 2 troop. The Warlock with embolden helps out a lot but I think 3 troops is really mandatory in 5th. It can be difficult to win the d3+2 objective mission with only 2 troops if the number 4 or 5 comes up.

You dont have to control all objectives to win, you just need to own one more than the enemy. You can hold back the troopers and let the councils own everything on their objective, or another tactic is to hold one trooper bike unit until near the end.

Kirika wrote:

Anti tank is also a bit lacking yes you can bash tanks with seer council but fire prisms are woefully unreliable for anti tank with the new scatter rules.

They are twin linked if you link them. St. 10 AP1 twin linked is very reliable. You are penning raiders on a 4+ and the target is so big its hard to miss.

Kirika wrote:

I know it ruins the jetbike theme, but I'm thinking you might want to go 10 naked dire avengers in wave serpents with missle launchers or bright lances for troops. Guardian Jetbikers are a bit vulnerable in 5th with true line of sight and this provides more anti tank.

But that serpent will eat all of your enemies AT fire. The reason you take the prisms light and in cover is so that they are sort of out of sight out of mind.

If your enemy is shooting at anything but the councils until they hit they have probably lost anyway though.

Kirika wrote:If you have the points for it I think you should double up on embolden and enhance because of the new wound allocation rules you might lose them and they are pretty crucial.

This is where I'd use Spears, actually. 1 Warlock w/Enhance & Witchblade, 1 w/Enhance & Spear, 1 w/Embolden & Witchblade, 1 w/Embolden & Spear.

But Embolden has no negative aspects other than it costs a bit more to add another. You are not only paying more for a spear you are losing an attack.

They also arent nob bikers, they only have one wound, so it isnt really worth it to give each guy something different. By then I think you are better off just taking a double embolden and enhance if you are really that worried about it.

But really, when I played the above list it was never an issue. If you are tight for points, enhance is more important than embolden.

GMMStudios wrote:But Embolden has no negative aspects other than it costs a bit more to add another. You are not only paying more for a spear you are losing an attack.

They also arent nob bikers, they only have one wound, so it isnt really worth it to give each guy something different. By then I think you are better off just taking a double embolden and enhance if you are really that worried about it.

But really, when I played the above list it was never an issue. If you are tight for points, enhance is more important than embolden.

True, they aren't nob bikers. But you still have the same benefits of wound allocation, in that 2 failed saves on one Embolden lock won't kill the other, so long as they are different. In a metagame which include Null Zone, that's not something to scoff at.

Wow thanks for all the info guys lot more than i bargained for, Naked prisms? i could see droping spirit stones but holo fields? do you know what the mathhammer is by chance on how much more survivable a vehicle with holo fields is than without?

as far as the warlocks go i think if i redid it then it would go something like:

Jetseer
runes of warding, fortune, mind war spirit stones

8 jetlocks
1 enhance/spear 1 enhance 1 embolden/spear 1 embolden 4 destructor

jetseer
fortune, doom, spirit stones

8 jetlocks
1 enhance/spear 1 enhance 1 embolden/spear 1 embolden 4 destructor

then the jetbikes hmm I can see how embolden helps them but i think for me i would prefer the 3 troop choice min so maby something like:

6 jetbikes 2 suricats 1 warlock embolden x 3

Here we go after some revision I changed things around abit how does this look:

----HQ----; 1192

Jetseer
Runes of warding
spirit stones
fortune
mind war
170


Jetlocks x8
Embolden
Spear
Embolden
Enhance
spear
Destructor 4
446

Jetseer 85
Spirit stones
fortune
Doom
160

Jetlocks x8
Embolden
Spear
Embolden
Enhance
spear
Destructor 4
446

--Troops--;456

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

--Heavy-->345

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115


1993

GMMStudios wrote:

Janthkin wrote:
You can't Fortune & turboboost the Farseer on the same turn. (Turboboosting denies the biker all voluntary actions for the turn.) This is one of those cases where your Farseer may not stay attached to the Warlocks, which makes RoWitnessing more useful. With a single Seer council and 2 Jetlocks (both with Fortune), one can Fortune on the first turn, leaving the second free to turboboost with the council (and fortune them on turn 2, before assaulting).

Yeah you can.

Fortune unit
Turboboost unit
move farseer 12
assault move farseer 6

Its not a perfect "fortune and turboboost whole unit" but at least you are still getting a 3+ rerollable cover save

More importantly, you cast fortune at the very beginning of the turn. There is nothing that prevents the farseer from casting fortune, THEN turbo-boosting. he can't cast it before doing any movement, and turbo-boost prevents actions after it is performed. but the Turbo-boost voluntary action ban does not specify that it applies retroactively.

Also in the most recent list, youve got a jetlocks in each squad without any psychic powers.

As youve given the squad two spears, you might aswell give spears to two out of the three that have embolden/enhance and have 5 of the locks destructoring.

20pts, you have 7pts... 5 templates might be overkill but against 10 termies or 30 boyz, youve got the potentail to deal out those wounds so why not spend the points & realise it.

Maleficorum wrote:VS Demons: Laugh

I could see a Tzeentch list doing terrible things to this list, but maybe I'm missing something.

Maleficorum wrote:Here we go after some revision I changed things around abit how does this look:

----HQ----; 1192

Jetseer
Runes of warding
spirit stones
fortune
mind war
170


Jetlocks x8
Embolden
Spear
Embolden
Enhance
spear
Destructor 4
446

Jetseer 85
Spirit stones
fortune
Doom
160

Jetlocks x8
Embolden
Spear
Embolden
Enhance
spear
Destructor 4
446

--Troops--;456

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

Jetbikes x 6
suricat 2
152

--Heavy-->345

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115


1993

I like this list a lot!

Try it out, it will do well!

0ldsk00l wrote:More importantly, you cast fortune at the very beginning of the turn. There is nothing that prevents the farseer from casting fortune, THEN turbo-boosting. he can't cast it before doing any movement, and turbo-boost prevents actions after it is performed. but the Turbo-boost voluntary action ban does not specify that it applies retroactively.

Wrong. The Turbo-boost rule doesn't say "they can't execute any other voluntary voluntary after using turbo-boost," it says "they cannot...execute any other voluntary action in the same turn." Casting Fortune is voluntary; ergo, you cannot turbo-boost if you cast Fortune that turn.

Actually, neither of you are right, it hasnt been faqd.

Some people agree with youJanthkin.

Others say that the "nothing else in the same turn"effect doesnt come up until you turbo boost.

Some people think of turns as linear, chains of events, like how Magic works, others think of it as one giant pool.

GMMStudios wrote:Actually, neither of you are right, it hasnt been faqd.

Some people agree with youJanthkin.

Others say that the "nothing else in the same turn"effect doesnt come up until you turbo boost.

Some people think of turns as linear, chains of events, like how Magic works, others think of it as one giant pool.

Well, YMMV. I, personally, cannot conceive of "cannot...execute any other voluntary action in the same turn" as meaning anything other than what it says - no other voluntary actions may be taken in the same turn; it seems very clear, and not in need of a FAQ. But we're derailing the thread.

Maleficorum, the only weakness I see in your list as it is now are the Troops (which is to say, the scoring units). Ld 8 Guardians are fragile things, and if they depart, you're out of any objective-based scenario. It may well be worthwhile to cut a 'lock from each Council, in order to add Embolden locks to some of the Guardian squads.