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So the rules on the Deff Dread says that is gets +1A for each aditional CCW. My question is does the profile (3A) already include the fact it comes with 2 CCW, or does the Deff Dread with 2 CCW have 4 attacks?

additional means above and beyond the ones he comes with. if you buy 1, you get +1A. buy 2, get +2A.

Dakka Dan wrote:So the rules on the Deff Dread says that is gets +1A for each aditional CCW. My question is does the profile (3A) already include the fact it comes with 2 CCW, or does the Deff Dread with 2 CCW have 4 attacks?

Check out the Ork FAQ on the GW website. A Dread with 3 CC weapons has 4 Attacks base and one with 4 CC weapons has 5 Attacks base. Now in all cases, the Dreadnought also gets +1Attack for having two CC weapons, so in reality the total amount of attacks a Dread gets is:

2 CC weapons: 4 Attacks/5 Attacks on the charge
3 CC weapons: 5 Attacks/6 Attacks on the charge
4 CC weapons: 6 Attacks/7 Attacks on the charge

How do you get that? The FAQ doesn't say "4 attacks base", it says "4 attacks" which I read as the total of attacks - i.e. 3 from the profile (already including the 2 DCCWs it normally comes with) +1 for the 3rd DCCW.

keep in mind, anyone in close combat get's +1 attacks if they're equipped with 2 close combat weapons. It's not a rule you deal with often on dreads, it's why most people overlook it.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:How do you get that? The FAQ doesn't say "4 attacks base", it says "4 attacks" which I read as the total of attacks - i.e. 3 from the profile (already including the 2 DCCWs it normally comes with) +1 for the 3rd DCCW.

Hmm, that was what I thought too.

But I now see that the FAQ use Attacks as a proper noun (capital A) and that should mean the Characteristic. The Deff Dread still has two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons and gain an extra attack as per page 73. A dread with two extra DCCWs has 7 attacks on the charge.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:How do you get that? The FAQ doesn't say "4 attacks base", it says "4 attacks" which I read as the total of attacks - i.e. 3 from the profile (already including the 2 DCCWs it normally comes with) +1 for the 3rd DCCW.

So by that rationale the Dreadnought doesn't get a bonus attack for charging either because the FAQ is giving you 'total' attacks?

I strongly disagree. As others have already pointed out, page 73 of the rules states that a model with 2 Dread CC weapons gets a bonus attack like any other model with two CC weapons. So an Ork Dreadnought with 2 CC weapons has 4 Attacks and 5 on the charge.

Each additional claw after that adds another attack to this total.

So Ironclad Dreadnought, I can't remember what the profile looks like at the moment, isn't it A:2 with 2 CCW? So an Ironclad receives 4 attacks base, 5 on the charge?

sourclams wrote:So Ironclad Dreadnought, I can't remember what the profile looks like at the moment, isn't it A:2 with 2 CCW? So an Ironclad receives 4 attacks base, 5 on the charge?

No. Like any model, a Dreadnought with 2 CC weapons gets +1 additional attack. Its just that it would get an additional +1Attack bonus for every CC weapon after that it was equipped with (although the only Dread that has that option is the Ork one).

That's exactly what I thought. What's the discrepancy with the Ork dread, then? Isn't it assumed that the base number of attacks incorporates the base weapon loadout? i.e. 1 attack +1 attack for CCW +1 attack for CCW (base 3) +1 for any additional CCW?

Most models' profile doesn't include bonuses for weapon loadout unless specifically noted in the description.

Ironclads are listed as A2(3). Presumably the (3) includes the bonus for having 2 DCCW? However it's not specified in the text, so it could be that they have A2(3) base +1 for 2 DCCW for a total of 4 Attacks and 5 on the charge. However the () formatting does seem to be commonly used when GW is including a bonus in the profile.

Deff Dreads are listed as A3. So the question is does that include the bonus for having 2 DCCW? There's nothing to say it does, and the formatting is different from the Ironclad, so I could believe the base Deff Dread should be A3(4). This would indeed mean a 4-DCCW Deff Dread would have 7 Attacks on the charge.

I've gotten the chance to get home and look at my codices. The formatting is indeed different between the Ironclad and the Deff Dread, and furthermore the Furioso Dreadnought is listed as having A 2(3). So even though the math works out identically for the Deff Dread standard loadout (1 attack base, +1 attack DCCW, +1 DCCW), it does indeed appear that from a "purist" point of view the base Deff Dread has 4 attacks before upgrades are bought.

Because the formula is so similar, however, I think it might be slightly difficult to convince someone of this if they have the opposing point of view.

The FAQ sums it up, I didn't think they addressed it there.

I will enjoy my 5A Deff Dread.

sourclams wrote:I've gotten the chance to get home and look at my codices. The formatting is indeed different between the Ironclad and the Deff Dread, and furthermore the Furioso Dreadnought is listed as having A 2(3). So even though the math works out identically for the Deff Dread standard loadout (1 attack base, +1 attack DCCW, +1 DCCW), it does indeed appear that from a "purist" point of view the base Deff Dread has 4 attacks before upgrades are bought.

Because the formula is so similar, however, I think it might be slightly difficult to convince someone of this if they have the opposing point of view.

Maybe the difference is that Marine Dreadnoughts are based on a 1-attack Marine, but Ork Deff Dreads are based off a 2-attack Ork? In general being put into a Dreadnought seems to add 1 to the attacks of the pilot (so Marine Dreads get 2A, Killa Kanz get 2A, Deff Dreads get 3A). That would make the basic math 2A + 1A for Dreadnought status = 3A +1 for 2 DCCW = 4A for basic Deff Dread.