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In the Apocalypse rulebook, it says that flyers count as skimmers moving over 12" so all hits are glancing. With the advent of 5th edition, this of course has changed so that now skimmers moving over 12" get a 4+ cover save.

The holo-fields rule states that '...any hits are discarded on a d6 roll of 4 or more".

So how does this work?

Option 1: Use the Apoc RAW - flyers can only recieve glancing hits but do not get a cover save. Holo-fields give you a 4+ save against all hits.

Option 2: 5th ed invalidates Apoc - All flyers get a 4+ cover save (effectively provided by the holo-fields) so holo-fields are redundant on Eldar flyers. Penetrating hits can occur on all flyers.

Option 3: Hybrid - After rolling to hit, the Eldar player would roll to see if any hits were discarded by the holo-field. After this any remaining hits could be negated by the cover save that applies to all flyers. Penetrating hits can occur on all flyers.



Option 1 has the problem that it makes all flyers incredibly difficult to kill by removing the 'destroyed' results (although immobilised results destroy flyers anyway), Option 2 makes Eldar flyers hideously overcosted, as they are paying for wargear that doesn't work, Option 3 makes Eldar flyers tougher than Nob bikers (well, not quite...) but seems to be the best way of mixing 5th ed and Apoc rules.

So what do you guys think??

Err, I don't see any Eldar flying titans with Holo-fields in the Apoc book, or Reload. Is this really a problem?

In any event, the Eldar Titan Holofield rule doesn't describe the roll as a "save", so it should be in addition to any normal cover save...

I voted #3, mostly because a well-thought-out hybrid rule is always better, and in this case that is especially true. Of course, I think that all saves should be a separate dice roll, and that rapid fire dice should be brought back.

@Solkan - all Eldar flyers have holo-fields, as do all Eldar Titan's and Super-heavys.

@warpcrafter - rapid fire dice lol

You've really got two questions combined into one poll here.


Question #1: is how to play Flyers vs. cover saves, whether to follow the RAW(ish) in Apoc and say they always count as glancing hits, or whether to convert to 5th edition and always count them as obscured?


Question #2: Is the Eldar Holo-field a 'cover save' of some sort (and thereby cannot be combined with the normal 'obscured' cover save)?



The answer to Question #1 IMO is: Since the Apoc rules say that Flyers always count penetrating hits as glancing because they follow the rules for skimmers, since the rules for skimmers is now changed this has to change as well. If it didn't reference the skimmer rules then I'd say you play that all penetrating hits count as glancing but since it does, I think you have to convert it.


The answer to Question #2 is: The Eldar Holo-field is never listed anywhere as being a cover save, and even in 4th edition a flyer would benefit from both the Holo-field and from moving fast (by converting penetrating hits to glances), so there is absolutely no reason to suddenly change this in 5th edition and break the RAW. An Eldar flyer benefits from the Holo-field after hits are scored against it and then if it actually suffers any damage from the remaining hits it then gets to take its obscured cover save against it.



So in short, I voted #3.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:@Solkan - all Eldar flyers have holo-fields, as do all Eldar Titan's and Super-heavys.

@warpcrafter - rapid fire dice lol

Yeah, they were that cool.

Option 3, for all the reasons the elusive yakface stated above.