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As the title states, and as some may know I recently started Guard again, I am looking for which Heavy Weapons combo well together and are considered good buys. Browsing through multiple forums I realized that there was a disparaging amount of information concerning just this information. Realizing that a new book will be released come May I figured, although most tactical articles may become somewhat outdated, we could shed some light on this. Why the heavy weapon lay outs? Because although points may change between basic troops there should be little to no "new" heavy weapons for Guard players to field. Enough w/ my intro and onto my thoughts to start it off....


As a Guard player your basic troops have a few heavy and special weapons to pick from. Lets break em down...
Heavy Weapons
Missile Launcher
The often overlooked Launcher that seems to get no love. But why? Same point cost as a Auto Cannon w/ 1 less shot but +1 Strength(potentially) and the same range. 5 Points more expensive than the Heavy Bolter and Mortar but all have different rolls. As everyone should know...the Missile Launcher can shoot one of 2 ways. A small template, at albeit, w/ less strength and AP than the solid shot. Both have different function...one is for Anti-Vehicle(prefer Armour 12-13 tops)and one is a Horde killer.
I think that the ML is valuable....at 1k or less. The amount of High Armour vehicles should be very low(unless your playing one of "those people" or a "Competitive" game)and it gives you the option to deal both w/ hordes and light tanks. Not a bad buy at lower point games but anything Past 1k people seem to pass over it for the Lascannon

Lascannon
You know what it does. You know why people take it. This shoots armour and/or if your bored...Terminators. A bit high point cost but stick it in a unit and that Lascannon now has 10 wounds basically. Back in 4th you could find IG armies rocking 20+ Lascannons at 1850 to 2k but as horde armies are becoming more prevalent people are finding the joy of other heavy weapons as well. Most armies include a couple of these either in Squads or w/ Sentinels.

Autocannon
Good range, strength only 1 less than the ML BUT 2 shots. Strength of 7 means it can deal w/ Dreads and other lightly armoured vehicles and still take the extra shot when needed at things like Hive Tyrants or other high priority targets. You see these a lot for good reason...they are effective and gives some extra punch

Mortar
What happened to these guys? Catachans use to rock em but you almost never see those guys anymore....shame really. Str 4 Guess weapons is nothing to sneeze at. Horde armies don't like em to much.....Make no mistake though...the fact that they will scatter the full 2d6 - BS does hurt these guys so keep that in mind when you take em. Might want to consider taking these guys as a Mortar Support Squad and not as a 1 off

Heavy Bolter
Ahhh the trusty, and cheap, Heavy bolter. 3 Shots at a strength that allows it to wound standard infantry on 3+ is great. You won't be hurting tanks, unless it's a Trukk and even than not consistently. Good against most armies due to forcing saves against Marines or just flat out killing things like Orks/Eldar/IG/Dark Eldar

Heavy Flamer
Now lets get this out of the way....this weapon is susceptible to no longer being a option come the new codex. Currently if you have Jungle Figthers as a Doctrine you can grab one. Having said that...if your rocking Catachans you should be rocking these weapons. I love templates. I do...so I admit I am biased. But you can have a Assault Str 5 template that can put the hurt on most troops in the game and at least force saves. Force enough saves and things will die. If you are rocking a heavy flamer you are most likely using that particular unit as a counter assault/assault unit.

Special Weapons
Melta Gun
Just looking at the name you can tell what it is for...it is for Melting things. Tanks specifically. When you are w/ in 6" you roll an extra d6 and will put the hurt on every vehicle minus the Monolith that ignores the Melta rules. You normally see these w/ Veteran Squads that are deepstriking w/ 3 of em as a suicide squad. This might not be a valid tactic in a few months but that is what the gun is for.

Plasma Gun
Decent range, high strength and low ap makes this thing nasty....Marines hate it as do things like Warbosses/Hive Tyrants. Rapid fire is an extra bonus. But do NOT forget that it can get hot. On a 1...chances are the guy shooting it is dead. Contrary to what some people may thing....if you roll a 1 someone else does not pick the weapon up nor does the unit take the hit. The model w/ the gun takes the hit as per Page 31. Don't try to abuse the rule and pull a fast one on people please. It is a weakness of a gun that can do terrible damage.

Grenade Launcher
Ahhh...people loved it when it came out(it is plastic)but 4th meant no one took it for various reasons. It has 2 firing modes like the ML but not as effective because it is assault. Str 6 solid shot is not bad but low ap isn't to great. The 2nd mode is blast but a low Strength(and the fact that the average toughness people seem to face is 4)means it is often times looked ever. If your using your CO for his bubble(leadership bubble...)maybe some Grenade launchers are a good investment. Stay in the back and lob templates at people. Just a little point that someone else pointed out, the GL is a touch heavy pointwise and still does scatter as well.

Flamer
Mmmmhhhh....sweet sweet flamers. Templates. Hit everything it touches. The strength is average but it auto hits AND Ignores Cover saves. Auto...hits. Look, IG BS is nothing to write home about. We need 4's which is why people like things that can/do hit multiple times. Realize that it is short range and normally a counter assault/assault unit. Toss it w/ a armoured fist squad and clear people out of terrain. Here is something i Have been using lately and it actually works fairly well. I run a large conscript squad and behind them is 2 JO squads w/ flamers.....when people assault and kill the Conscripts I drop 2-4 flamers on them....it kills things. Works once...but it is great.

Demo Charge
A special note on this one...it can only be taken by 1 squad. A total of 3 out of 6 guys in the unit can take it and there is no word on whether this unit will still be an option come the new Codex. But as it stands this is a 6" range Ordance blast. That is thrown....now w/ the current rules on Template weapons this weapon is now slighty more accurate than it used to be. I don't have the numbers in front of me nor the link w/ me....but it is more accurate now than it used to be and it's amusing if it works. It is thrown 6" and w/ an average scatter roll of 7(minus your BS) means it shouldn't scatter back and kill you as often

Sniper Rifle
Hopefully the next codex will let more units beyond 1 human squad and Ratlings to take it. But right now....you hit on BS and it always wounds on a 4+ w/ the rending rule.

I'll do my breakdown on Special Weapons shortly and will than look at what pairs well together. I'd love any other input anyone has

C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

Wait....wrong game. Now lets look at various combo's w/ the different options we have.

Missile Launcher
Pairs well w/ the Grenade Launcher. Yes the range of the GL is half the ML but both can go template or solid shot. The GL can only glance armour 12 but it is a better option than the Meltagun(very short range), Flamer(see Meltagun).

Lascannon
Pairs well w/ the Plasmagun? The Plasmagun is also AP2 which is a plus but, like all the special weapons minus the Meltagun, but will be ineffective against any real tank the Lascannon is trying to take down. A lot of people don't really run much else w/ the Lascannon squad. Some use the flamer to try and torch anyone trying to come and assault the Lascannon squad

Autocannon
Pairs well w/ the Plasmagun due to same strength but better AP and a possiblites of 2 shots when the enemy gets close. GL isn't a terrible option either I guess due to solid shot. Meltagun is to short range to compliment the Autocannon.

Mortar
Uhhhh.....if your taking this outside of the Mortar squad...uhhh.....Grenade Launcher for another template?

Heavy Bolter
Plasma Gun and the Grenade launcher can both be effective while w/ the Heavy bolter. But can put the hurt on a Horde army or focus fire on a threatening model. Flamers are also a good pairing due to your ability to put out good shots and still be able to move and take objectives. Once you have the objective the unit can put out a good amount of firepower.

Heavy Flamer
Flamer. Seriously....why even look at a different weapon? Why hit them w/ only 1 template when you can hit them w/ 2. Seriously....do it. Burn the Heretic

You may have noticed that the Meltagun and flamer didn't combo to well w/ the Heavy weapons. There is a reason for that. They are both assault weapons used up close w/ the enemy. While Heavy Weapon attachments are meant to sit back and pour fire into the enemy while the more mobile elements(read AFS and tanks)go for the objectives. Armoured Fist Squads and Drop Pod/infiltrating troops make good use w/ such close range weapons. Do not forget though..you are T3 w/ a 5+ save. Most anyone looking at you will kill you so be prepared to loose your mediocre assaulting units but at least cause some pain while you can.

Don't forget the heavy flamer.

Jungle fighters, drop troopers, heavy flamer, flamer, close order drill = awesome infantry squad. I use 2 to 4 of them and they kick serious ass.

You pretty much have ti down on the other heavy wepaons. The mortar blows, except against hordes, but even then it still kind of blows.

Alright have everything up that I can think of...would love any other input or thoughts on what all I said. Thought I would also put this disclaimer....


Remember that when you shoot through your other units w/ your heavy weapons...even w/ good Ap you still give the enemy Cover Saves. Until the new codex comes out which hopefully does something to rectify that heavy weapon squads by themselves can become compromised quickly. This is what I mean...

Lets say your running a Heavy Weapon Heavy Bolter Squad. And let us say you are fighting a Ork army. If you screen your guys to give you cover saves from shooting or to protect you from assaults remember that your giving the enemy Cover saves to survive your shooting.

I'd say magnetize the tripods and switch em out depending what army your playing, a horde army like nids take heavey bolters and flamers (possibly mortars but other 2 are prefered, other wise las and rockets against tank armies

Forgot auto canon eh thats debateable could be used against more elite units in horde armies and troops in elite armies but not that great agains hordes, or vehicles, and as far as plasma, flamer, and melta go it's same situation as horde or vehicle

I am in slight disagreement w/ you there Warboss. Now sure..some people will change there army based upon what they are facing but I have always felt that a balanced army is the best approach against any army. Sure..there will be 1 trick ponies that can really hurt a balanced army but that's my personal taste. For example every army list I have I normally run

2-3 Heavy Bolter
2-3 Autocannons
2+ Lascannons not including my sentinels

Every list has that. Flamers are always floating around as are Plasmaguns. It's done well for me and helps me get a solid feel for what my army is capable of. My Autocannons can help deal w/ Rhino's and lascannons/ordance deals w/ other threats as needed.


Having said that...yes I do have my Tripods magnetized. I did that asap and than as I played I realized that I run the same basic heavy weapons.

Autocannons are excellent against any light vehicle army. They murder Dark Eldar and Rhino Rush, are useful against Eldar and any AV12 abundant force, and can reliably wound T6+ models.

You forgot to mention that the GL is overpriced. 6 pts seems far more reasonable. Sure, it has two modes of fire, but it fires one or the other at a time.
and IMO, frags are pointless. I have killed far more of my own guardsmen than the enemy (I keep thinking 8" is safe enough, silly me...)
If you use GLs, just say yes to Krak!

I hope to see a price drop come March, maybe free, like the SM enjoy with their missile launcher.

I am a fan of the Heavy Bolter + Flamer squad. It does very well in dense terrain areas. The HB high ROF means that you are not hurt by 4+ cover saves as much as other HWs, and the flamer is awesome. Great offensive squad that can move in and try to take objectives.


I have stopped taking GLs :( I pair my Missile Launchers, Autocannons and (if i don't take them in AT Squads) Lascannons with Plasmaguns.

Meltaguns go in command squads, vet or stormie squads.

Nod to BoxANT, I agree with his post above. I would also like to add that I field more and more autocannons in 5th edtition that I ever did in 4th....

Autocannons are great.

With more mechanized armies, autocannons are where its at for killing eldar vehicles, devilfish, rhinos, truks, chimeras, etc.

I love the autocannon, and I usually take at least one squad of 3 of them for light anti tank.

I also have to point out, if you're playing against a gunline Guard army, it's virtually impossible to avoid presenting vehicle side armor to one of the dozen heavy weapons on the flanks. Autocannons are often hitting AV12 or less due to side shots.

Glad a lot of other people use Autocannons galore. In my particular area, the 3 guard players that float around, almost none of them use more than 1 autocannon. Boggles the mind completely......AC are good against any vehicle minus the Land Rainer and Monolith. I rock 2-3 easily if not 4 in most list...fill out the rest w/ heavy bolters and maybe 1-2 lascannons. My Sentinels are my Lascannon totting buddies

I think the popularity of the a/c is the 2 shots. BS 3 not the best in the game. 5th ed treatment of blast weaponry should make mortars more popular and ML even more viable.

I think some of this discussion is flawed. The IG list, like every other list, has to be able to address certain threats (hordes, light armor spam, heavy armor, Nidzilla, etc) so the various heavy weapons are options to deal with those issues.

It seems defeating heavy armor is best accomplished through deepstriking melta weapons. The number of lascannons (or missile launchers, I guess) needed to reliable take out AV14 makes it fairly unreliable. However, I think lascannons are really the only option for fighting Nidzilla...the melta units don't shoot enough shots, plasma rifles are too short ranged unless deepstriking (which is being taken over by melta instead now).

Missile launchers and autocannons seem, to me, to fill the same role really...focusing more on light armor with some anti-horde ability. The missile threatens heavier troops and armor a bit more with it str 8 and ap3, while the autocannon is more effective against lighter armor due to volume of fire.

For true horde control, the various flame weapons, heavy bolters or massed mortars are all viable options. Each have pros and cons, but all fill the same general role. Hellhounds are an option discussed in another thread, and pie plates (russes) are helpful multi-purpose weapons for hordes and tougher infantry.

As for the special weapons, as mentioned, melta weapons seem to be the best, most cost-effective option for anti-armor. Deepstriking allows the weapons to react anywhere on the board, is fairly reliable to get weapons in range and is devastating against all armor (except monoliths).

Plasma guns provide IG with a cheap, extremely effective weapon for dealing with something that can normally be an issue: high toughness/+2 armor creatures. It's also effective against marines and terminators, which are threats. The overheating risk is always there, but it's fairly low overall (especially with the 5th edition rules) and the benefits are pretty major.

Grenade launchers are just a poor substitute for the other weapons. For whatever role you would take them for, there's another weapon that probably fills it better.

As an aside, I've been fairly impressed with mortars my last few games. The 3 team mortar support squads can rack up a fairly impressive number of wounds on units, and with the long range it's easy for multiple squads to target the most pressing threats each round and concentrate fire.

The one issue I'm finding I have to focus on more is the difference in tough squads (like marines) and tough single models (carnifexes, wraithlords, marneus calgar). The demolisher, for example, seems like a decent option for both, but for the cost, it will, at best, only cause one wound. Drifting a bit against a marine squad, too, will still probably net a few kills, but against a single model could result in a complete miss. The alternatives are plasma guns or lascannons, which are better for individual targets but don't kill large squads of MEQs quickly enough.

Look at the party pooper. Grimaldi, you really didn't leave much to discuss!

edit: PSP had premature postulation...

I tend to look at IG weapon abit differently.

I only field Lascannon , ML , Auto Cannon. never heavy bolters.

In place of HB i usually roast the mass hordes alive with my 3 chimeras ,
and finish the monstrous creatures with Lascannons.

Heresy! You have broken the Holy Trinity of his Emperer's blessed heavy weapons!



Kidding... I would use multi-lasers in stead of HB given the choice, personally.

Flamer's are great against hordes you can get up to 7 orks under 1 Flamer template!