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Hey all

I was doing some reading and some thinking, and pondered the idea of just dropping the pathfinders in my original list and taking a large seer council and avatar. I did need a counter assault unit for the Wraithguard.

Here is one list:
Eldrad
7 Warlocks - 3 Destructor, 1 embolden, 1 enhance
Avatar

10 WG Spiritseer Conceal
10 WG Spiritseer Conceal

Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher
Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher
Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher

Pros: 4 MCs and a nice beefy seer council instead of the pathfinders. Definitely intimidating.
Cons: Not really enough fortune to go around. I would like the council and two troops to have it.
Only two troops, which I dont mind, but it sure isnt a plus.

List two:
Eldrad
Farseer - SS Fortune Guide
8 Warlocks - 3 Destructor, 2 embolden, 1 enhance

10 WG Spiritseer Conceal
10 WG Spiritseer Conceal

Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher
Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher
Wraithlord 2 Flamers Bright Lance. Missle Launcher

Pros: Plenty of fortune to go around, leaves Eldrad free to join the WG.
Cons: Back to only 3 MCs and I feel less powerful in the assault phase.

Either of these better than my original "best" list?
Eldrad
Farseer - RoWitnessing Spirit Stones, Guide Fortune

10 Wraithguard - Spirit Seer Conceal
10 Wraithguard - Spirit Seer Conceal
10 Pathfinders

Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher
Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher
Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher

Thanks again for any help!

Whats wrong with 5pathfinders/rangers and a 5man warlock team.

It doesn't fit :/

I just ran across another list that nearly wrecked my day.

Farseer - Guide/Fortune/Runes of Warding
Farseer - Guide/Fortune

10 Wraithguard
10 Wraithguard

1 El Cheap Wraithlord, Sword and Starcanon (should have been ELM if anything)

10 Warpspiders - Exarch all the toys
10 Warpspiders - Exarch all the toys

Fireprism, with Holofields.


Tactically the Wraithguard walk to the objectives or advance until they can get into shooting or even assault range. They don't seem to fear anything other than powerclaw nob squads or a unit of terminators with a crapton of powerfists.

The warpsiders deepstrike on a flank, both squads gang up on something, kill it or reduce it to very little, then they warp away.


3wraithlords protects a little against squads with lots of powerfists, but keeps you from being able to buy other more mobile units that can provide a threat elsewhere.

I don't think I like your warlock squads, they are extremely squishy and just make your lack of mobility that much more apparent. Pathfinders are ok, they stay home and the rest of your army marches ponderously forward. Whether you use Eldrad or 2 farseers, makes little difference. Since you have about 170ish pts of warlocks, and a lot of pts in pathfinders, try running warpspiders or infiltrating scorpions, both of which are reasonsably tough units to eliminate if you take 8 or more.

OK in no particular order! here are my thoughts:


As I said before running eldard in a Iyanden list is asking to get scored low on comp.

Never ever take runes of witnessing, its a total waste of points, for something that does more to hurt you than help.

After that I am wondering why you have groups of warlocks with no transports, considering that do to the high toughness of the wraithguard, str 3 and 4 weapons will almost always target your locks. You are just begging to lose a really expensive group real fast.

If you are going to run a large group of locks they need to be on jetbikes to give them 4t and a 3+ save,

Ignore the suggestion above me that says you should have a wraithlord with a sword, there is no reason ever that a wraithlord should have that piece of Chit in a tourney.

Also don't give the lock conceal in 5th there is an abundance of +4 cover saves, and honestly how many AP3 wound do you think you will be taking out of cover? Give him Enhance or Destructor, depending on the meta-game.

If I was making the list I would run:

2 farseers Doom, fortune S.S.
one will have rune of warding, and they will each join a wraithguard squad to abuse the majority toughness rules.

10 Wraithguard 1 warlock w/ enhance
10 Wraithguard 1 warlock w/ enhance

10 x Harlies w/ Shadow seer 5 kisses
to use as counter charge for your wraithlords

Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher
Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher
Wraithlord - 2 flamers bright lance, missle launcher

calculate the points on that I think it will be close.

Clthomps- thanks for the advice. I meant to drop RoW. I forgot to erase it when I copy pasted. I agree with you there.

As a note, conceal is completely pointless because you have a 4+ invul save. Never will you get a cover save when you cant get an invul save anyway.

I agree that the council would be slow and would take up a lot of lower strength fire. However, with a 5+ invul save vs. a 4+ rerollable save, how are the harlequins that much better?

I do like your list. In fact I put it in, and call me evil but I can do that and still keep Eldrad. In fact there are enough points left over to give all the harlies kisses, but I dont think it would be worth it.

Ive always been wary of harlies because they are so fragile and so many points. If you think it is worth giving them a shot I will proxy them a few times though.

Also, just as a thought, what about keeping Eldrad and Avatar, and adding the harlies? Comp and fluff aside. Although now that you mention it, Harlies would be fitting since they are ally to no craftworld.

Thanks!

EDIT: The above list with Eldrad and Avatar, plus ten harlies including all kisses is exactly 1850. Hmm..

This is why harlies are much better:

The harlies can not be targeted at 24" or greater, and will not be hit with much over 15" so if you keep them 6-12 inches behind your wraithguard (which should be somewhere around 12" from an enemy so that they can fire) the harlies will get a +4 cover save from the wraith, if the enemy can shoot them at all (most unlikely). Then when your wraiths receive a charge (from what remains of the unit you blasted) the harlies can move / fleet into combat and mop up, then consolidate behind the wraithguard to gain a cover save again.

Keeping Eldrad is up to you, I am one of the Special Character haters so my view on that is biased.


Please don't take an avatar in this list.... the main reason the avatar is good is that he give your units fearless, since 90% of your list is fearless you are left with a slow moving CC unit. Spend the points on a second farseer so that both units can get fortuned. Also doom is Key for both units, you can re-roll any dice that are not "6"s against units with more than one wound like nob bikers and the like. Plus sticking them in a unit of wraithguard bumps there toughness up to 6.


I am sure I am forgetting something, oh well I will remember it in the morning.

G'Night,
Chris

Ahh I forgot that they cant be targeted if you have the seer, that definitely makes them a good candidate for that role, and I like the tactic you have laid out.

Also, I forgot about how important instant death would be versus such models as nob bikers. I was thinking guide would be better because you hit on 3s and wound on 2s. A second farseer along with Eldrad *would* allow me to do both.

Thanks a lot for the help, I may have to run with the two seer and harlie list and see how it does.

Good.

::stops beating the dead horse::

::walks away::

Haha its fine. I think we are the only ones visiting this thread now anyway