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Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





I've been rearranging my list a lot lately (bored at school with no models to work on :( ) and I can't quite settle on the version I like the most right now. So, I'll post the core of the army (that I would prefer not to make major changes to) and then post some of the ideas I have for using the rest of the points. I'm also open to completely new ideas, and the only thing I won't really do is run a Defiler (I hate the model and want nothing to do with it). Here is the core:

Demon Prince: Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Wings
155

Demon Prince: Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Wings
155

7x Plague Marines: 2x Melta Gun, Personal Icon, 1x Champion: Power Fist
+Rhino
261

7x Plague Marines: 2x Melta Gun, Personal Icon, 1x Champion: Power Fist
+Rhino
261

7x Plague Marines: 2x Melta Gun, Personal Icon, 1x Champion: Power Fist
+Rhino
261

3x Obliterators
225

3x Obliterators
225

TOTAL: 1543

Depending on the options, I'm compeltely open and willing to drop things like Rhinos, Icons, Wings, etc to make some saucy looking units fit, so I have anywhere between 307-400 points to spend. Right now I'm leaning towards this for the rest of the points, if I drop a Rhino it fits perfect points wise:

Greater Daemon
100

Land Raider: Daemonic Possession
240

I like it because it gives me something that cna actually fight and kill things in close combat aside from the Princes. The GD is just a beast and is fantastic for cleanup duty if anything lives through the standard lash together and plasma cannon routine. the Land Raider gives me a rolling fortress to stash a scoring unit in (PMs are very resilient, but it increases a ton with the LR making them so hard to remove its silly) as well as something that can hide a Daemon Prince completely, so its like a moving piece of terrain to help cut down the fire coming towards them. It also brings a cuple more Lascannons for mechanized lists (though 6 from the Oblits might already be enough) and things like scary MCs. At this point, I get really worried about how tiny the army is though. It'll total a mere 34 models (yikes!). I would probably be switching some assault weapons over to Flamers at that point because that is just not enough to deal with horde style armies. I also really like this one:

Greater Daemon: 100

Dreadnought: 2x DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
115

Dreadnought: 2x DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
115

I get some very solid CC ability here. If some combination of the GD and Dreads charge the same thing it should be more or less dead. Dreads with 4 attacks each (5 on the charge) are just nutty. They hit almost as hard as the GD does! They are perhaps not as survivable as the GD though, and I don't get a Land Raider or other tank but I suppose the DPs fit behind the Dreadnoughts pretty well for at least a cover safe.

Other options include:

307pts worth of Terminators in wahtever equipment seems awesome (Chainfists, combi meltas and combiflamers aplenty ). This seems neat as I can do a bunch of things with them like run small units that function similar to Tau Crisis Suits with Fusion Guns. Units of 3 Termies with combimeltas are 105pts each and are great for deepstiking next to scary opposing armor.

Drop icons and maybe wings to get a few termies and a Land Raider. This option has appealed to me for a while, but when it comes to it the Greater Daemon just seems so much more scary and for less points than a bunch of termies.

Vindicator and a small unit of chosen (3x Flamer, 2x Melta) in a rhino. I like this one because the Vindicator is nasty with Lash spam, but the Chosen don't seem to really do anything cool for me that the army doesn't already do well. Mostly it seems like more of the same.

anyone have thoughts or ideas for how to fill the remaining points?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/01/27 07:10:08


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Scotland

You have resilience in those Plague Marines... You are right about your numbers... A horde army would be a problem I think. Lots of melta there and no flamers.

A Land Raider with two Lash Daemon Princes behind it is begging for some good CC troops in its belly. Fill it with Berzerkers.

I'd never use Dreadnoughts... ever, i'd rather have a Defiler than those.

Other than that it's a tried and tested solid list. If you know you are facing "Ork" then i'd definetly drop the meltas, facing a horde with those would make me nervous. You would definetly need to drop those single hit high strength low ap weapons in favour of Pie Plates and templates... which im sorry to say means Defiler.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Yorkshire, UK

How about a couple of Vindicators with Daemonic Possession?

It would let you keep your Rhinos to give your PM's manouvreablity and the wings on your DP's likewise, whilst also giving you 2 scary pie plates that can be used against hordes, MEQ's - even Nob Bikers to good effect.

While you sleep, they'll be waiting...

Have you thought about the Axis of Evil pension scheme? 
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator





With 300pts to spend i would pick up 12 noise marines with sonic blasters to deal with horde.

A landraider doesnt help you deal with hordes and point for point horde orks will kill berzerkers in protracted combats, even if they charge.

Dreads are a terrible idea because they are quite prone to doing what you dont want them to and they dont have enough attacks in combat to make a dent before they are killed by are taken down by powerklaws.

Greater Demons have a similar problem but have no shooting, are easier to kill in combat and will cost one of your very expensive plague marine champions (you are in effect paying 163pts for that GD).

Swapping the meltas on your PM squads will make them better against hordes but make you terrible against vehicles and MCs. It is a big risk to take especially when you can make up the weakness with the points you have left over.

Noise Marines would give you more bodies, more scoring units and put out loads of firepower. They are also fearless and can hold their own in combat.

Alternatively you could just get another 3 oblits, which give you better everything, and spend the rest of the points on more plague marines.

Vindicators are good, just not as good as obliterators.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/01/27 15:01:12


taking up the mission
Polonius wrote:Well, seeing as I literally will die if I ever lose a game of 40k, I find your approach almost heretical. If we were to play each other in a tournament, not only would I table you, I would murder you, your family, every woman you ever loved and burn down your house. I mean, what's the point in winning if you allow people that don't take the game seriously to live?
 
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror




Golden, CO

If you want to take a GD, make sure you have one champion with no wargear. Yes, you're telegraphing to a smart opponent where the daemon is likely to appear, but you're not wasting 25 points on the fist.

You could also take another PM squad with dual flamers and Rhino, to put it at 1804. Dropping the personal icons and the powerfist from the flamer champion brings it to 1759, which is only 10 points away from putting in that GD. If you change all the PM squads to melta/flamer you would have the points you need, and help a bit with horde at the cost of a bit of anti-tank. It's an option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/01/27 21:43:54


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Take the GD and the Dreads. You will be happy to have the Dreads in the list. I laugh anytime someone says a Powerklaw(fist) will bring them down in combat. It just doesn't happen very often in 5th. One Nob has 3 attacks with the fist. 1.5 hit, 0.5 to pen. When you pen the dread only cares 1/3rd the time. That's a 6% chance to blow up the Dread in CC with a Nob PowerKlaw. Yeah keep trying.

Who sends a lone dread into 30 Boyz anyway, especially when you have 2 Lashes!!!!

Here is why you want the Dreads. You have nothing to stop the Nob Bikers. Lash them into the 2 Dreads and watch the unit vaporize.

   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





I like the Noise Marines idea a lot. They can put down some really solid amounts of firepower against Horde units. I'm definitely looking into it (but I'm kindof really attached to the GD at this point, so maybe a unit of 8 Noise Marines with a naked champ and the GD would be ok?). I know that when the GD leaps out of a PM champ I'm losing some points because I've given them all fists and such, but honestly I'm afraid to drop those Fists and take a naked champ or two. I'm also paying points for some misdirection because the champ that the GD will come out of isn't telegraphed. It adds a little bit more depth to my opponent's thoughts when they're playing against the lsit because they don't know where big nasty will come from. In a sense, I'm paying points to play a small mind game.

The Dreads are a bit unpredictable, but the only result that really bothers me is fire frenzy and even then it is hardly annoying since all they have are bolters and heavy flamers and they'll be close to each other, so they'll just shoot each other with weapons that can't touch AV12. Conversely, they can really do damage to horde units with Heavy Flamer templates followed by 5 attacks each on the charge. I would use them together so it would be rare that either of them is in combat alone. 2 CC equipped dreads on the charge can really hammer most horde units with 10 attacks combined coming after 2 Heavy Flamer templates. The hidden fists and klaws aren't altogether scary either since as previously pointed out, the chance of one killing a dread is very small.

I guess part of my feeling on the list is that I'm expecting to get docked for sportsmanship because I'm playing dual lash, so I'm trying to find something a bit out of the ordinary and flavorful to include in the list. the GD and Dreads are both very cool and while strong, they are far from being power units in the CSM book. I'd hope for those units to help diffuse the "OMG dual lash what a jerkoff" mentality that some people have when they see a list like mine.

Could I get away with switching 1 unit of PMs to Flamers instead of Meltas (and then maybe giving that champ a power weapon and combi-flamer?)? The meltas just seem so important for my AT ability and good AT is really important for lash since it can only manipulate enemy non-vehicle units. Alternatively, I can give my champs combi-flamers to help hordes a bit. I'm pretty comfortable putting my PMs in combat with horde type units since FNP will come through huge for me and if I drop a flamer template before charging in I'll significantly increase my odds of winning combat. I3 is a shame here though.
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator





GD really arent that worth it. What happens is they pop out of a champion (135pts if its a NM champion), kill one unit (if it doesnt have an powerfists, is relatively small and isnt good in combat) and then spend the rest of the game tying to get inot combat with something else. They are too slow to be an effective hammer unit. Having one come out of a NM champion also means that you will be marching the NM up the board, so cant utilise their superior static shooting. They are good when they move but theyre better when they stand still.

It amuses me when people say they powerfists/klaws dont kill dreads. They do, not on the first round of combat but considering that there are two rounds of combat per game turn it wont take long. A dread just cant put out enough attacks to seriously dent a combat unit before it is dragged down. Its easy to imagine that they will only get into combat with squishy units but in reality it doesnt happen. The way the game progresses you will be inevitably drawn to units that are effective in combat, and then you will lose. Killing 2 orks a turn, even if its only in a mob of 10, will not get you anywhere. This isnt even to mention that they get shot by anything significantly stronger than a sneeze. Other than this they will decide to shoot when you dont want them to charge and they will charge when you want them to run away. Dreads will come back to bite you in your rear.

Sportsmanship is only every an issue if you are a tool. If you act like an arse and dont treat your opponent with courtesy and respect then they will give you bad sportsmanship scores. If you are friendly, fun and smile then they will see you for the nice guy you probably are and they will award sportsmanship accordingly. If people dock you points because of the army your brought then they probably deserve the same treatment. You can always tell who these people are by how they play. This is the point of sportsmanship (sportspersonship? ) scores.

Giving your PMs flamers makes them terrible against the things that kill them easily, MCs and vehicles. Hordes should be easily dealt with through a combination of lash and firepower (plasma cannon and sonic blasters). PMs can wade through tides of infantry without caring too much but a MC will start chomping on them and vehicles will either drive away or drop a pie-plate on them. Powerfists alone arent enough to kill either so you need something else to back them up with. Metlas are also some of the best anti-tank in the game and can one-shot nob bikers.

taking up the mission
Polonius wrote:Well, seeing as I literally will die if I ever lose a game of 40k, I find your approach almost heretical. If we were to play each other in a tournament, not only would I table you, I would murder you, your family, every woman you ever loved and burn down your house. I mean, what's the point in winning if you allow people that don't take the game seriously to live?
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Indiana

If you want a competitive army, it is going to be more rhino plagues or noise marines to make it to 1850. Nothing else will keep it competitive to be honest.



​ ​​ ​​ ​​ 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





NC

dreads are fun, but not very competitive. As GMMStudios has said, what is going to keep this list competitive is filling it out with more plague marine troops. The only problem with this, is you have a list that everyone takes, and everyone hates. It should do pretty well though. If you want CC in a vehicle, take a defiler, it is better than a dread and has a battlecannon, which will work well with Lash.

Falcon Punch!


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





I was afraid that more of the same would be the order of the day for a competetive build. I was trying to find some more flavourful solutions to the mess because the army feels so bland with more PMs and a unit of Noise Marines.

I think Noise Marines will suit me better than more PMs right now though since tey boats great anti infantry firepower, which is something the list is lacking a bit at the moment.

Would Terminators or some special weapon loaded Chosen work to fill the points? A beefy unit of Chosen with a bunch of meltas and flamers is good utility in terms of shooting, but I still lack anything able to stand up to a really killy assault unit for even a turn. I should probably be able to pick my fights with decent success as long as my lash princes are around, but I definitely think that it is ideal to not rely on Lash so much that it becomes the only function of the army. I need to be able to win games where Lash isn't useful (such as against Mech armies or for times when the lash princes die quick... granted that will generally happen due to me playing poorly).
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





NC

Deep-striking terminators with Combi weapons will be able to drop in and cripple a worrisome unit. And once they are in, they are pretty good in CC.

Falcon Punch!


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Arlington, Texas

Be a jackass and add 3x the following:

3x Terminators - 105
3x Combi-meltas

Or just add a Chosen Plasma gun line.

Worship me. 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Well my original version of the list has 3 units of 3 terminators two of which have 3 combimeltas and the third has 2 combiflamers and a heavy flamer.
   
 
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