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2009/01/27 20:43:14
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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The Gauntlet of the forge can be fired as a heavy flamer.... Does it benefit from He'stan's Chapter Tactics?
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/27 20:45:14
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Stormin' Stompa
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Can't see why it shouldn't. Does He'stans Chapter Tactics work on Heavy Flamers?
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
 18.000  3.500  8.200  3.300  2.400  3.100  5.500  2.500  3.200  3.000
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2009/01/27 20:45:21
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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i'd think not as it is not truly a heavy flamer.
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2009/01/27 20:49:33
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Stormin' Stompa
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Thats not a very good argument. Burnas arent really powerweapons but flamers, yet in the Assault phase they can work as one (given the circumstances) with all the benefits it entails.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000
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2009/01/27 21:04:26
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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That's my conclusion as well..... Kinda ironic that He'stan's Chapter tactics don't work on his own weaponry (The Spear is inherently MC'd so that somewhat makes up for it.)
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/27 23:56:41
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Vulkan's entry says you may fire it "as a heavy flamer". His entry also says all heavy flamers count as twin linked. I would interpret this to mean that anything fired "as" a weapon twin linked by Vulkan's rules would be twin linked.
Just ask how you would fire a heavy flamer in an army with Vulkan in it. I would count it as twin linked...
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2009/01/28 02:19:01
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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It's fired as a heavy flamer, but it doesn't count as a heavy flamer. BIG difference.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/28 03:05:32
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
UK
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It counts as a heavy flamer. You can argue otherwise but its strikingly obvious what was intended.
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:Friend of mine just sent me this:
"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!
Heh.  |
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2009/01/28 03:12:26
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I think callenders are intended to be water containers; The manufacturers just keep forgetting to plug the holes. (Much like GW). Unfortunately, just like callenders, intent arguments don't hold water.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/28 03:26:18
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Fresh-Faced New User
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"This armored gauntlet can be fired as a heavy flamer"
Aren't heavy flamers twin linked with Vulkan in the army?
Wouldn't you fire his gun as you would a heavy flamer? The gauntlet does not have the same name as a heavy flamer. Still, I would resolve shooting it as I would typically resolve shooting a heavy flamer in the army. If the wording stated that the gauntlet can be fired as S5 AP4 flame template I would say you should not get to twin link. This is very similar, although slightly less clear than shooting a combi-flamer or combi-melta with Vulkan.
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2009/01/28 03:26:52
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Dakka Veteran
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If it's fired like a heavy flamer shouldn't it get to re-roll like one?
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2009/01/28 03:31:10
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Lost Carcosa
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Are you going to then argue that it ignores the Avatars being immune to such weapons?
If you think that being fired as a Heavy Flamer is not the same as a Heavy Flamer firing, then your logic is merly one step away from ignoring another cratures rules as well. Since no where is it described as a "Melta or Flame Weapon of a differant name", because there is no fluff to the weapon that describes it in that manor, it would get around the Eldar FAQ with its more encompassing list of what does not affect the Avatar.
This is simply not the case in either circumstance. His Flamer is Twin Linked and its use is ignored by the Avatar.
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 Standing in the light, I see only darkness. |
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2009/01/28 03:41:02
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Marius, truly I would love to agree with you, as I intend to field him. Just another instance of imprecise wording on GW's part. However since the terminology can really be argued either way, I'm going to choose the interpretation of least advantage. Meaning that I won't TL and I'll still let the Avatar have his immunity.
And honestly, I don't think the intent IS clear. My first thought was "It would be cool if the gauntlet was actually a heavy flamer. The I could fire it TL'd."
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/28 03:45:31
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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I think we need to be careful with this thread. I don't want the Avatar becoming immune to my Doomsiren or Wind of Chaos ><
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40k Armies I play: 
Glory for Slaanesh! 
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2009/01/28 03:58:06
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Lordhat, I don't understand your logic. If its fired as a heavy flamer, why would it not count as a heavy flamer? And if its already twinlinked as you say, who cares, sounds like its pretty clear its meant to be twinlinked.
(Is there another precedence for not doing that?)
I don't have any vested interest, I don't play imperial armies.
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2009/01/28 04:07:35
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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My logic is that it never actually states that it IS a heavy flamer. It's false logic to assume that it is one because it's resolved like one. This logic is only re-inforced by the name: Gauntlet of the Forge. If it was called the Gauntlet of the Waterhose we'd have a lot more people asking this question. Also the description doesn't follow the same logic as other 'named weapons': The Spear of Vulkan: "This is a....' The Raven's Talons: "These are a..." Moondrakken: "This is an...." The Fist of Dorn "This is a....." and so forth.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/28 07:42:47
Subject: Another question about He'stan
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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I think you're arguing just to argue. Does it really break the game? In an amy of twin-linked flame weapons does the leader having one REALLY grate on you that much?
If the answer is no, let it go. Unless you've got some overwhelming "IT JUST....CAN'T....BEEEEEE!" principle, it's not worth the breath fighting for it.
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40k Armies I play:
Glory for Slaanesh!
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2009/01/28 08:04:00
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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You're just scared for your doomsirens 
Besides this IS the place to argue for argument's sake, isn't it? Truthfully I believe my conclusion is correct, and I hope to be proven otherwise. And no I don't think it's a game breaking issue, it's just something I want to hash out with other intelligent, well spoken people. As long as we can keep the flames (OMG sorry about the pun)out of the thread, debate is fun.
Edit: WOOT 900 posts!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/01/28 08:06:20
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/01/28 09:33:23
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The Gauntlet is fired as a heavy flamer. Not "counting as" or "like" but straight up "as". Therefore, at least while firing, the Guantlet is for all intents and purposes a heavy flamer and would therefore benefit from any rules that apply to heavy flamers (such as his Vulkan's special rule).
If an athlete gets to compete in the olympics "as a" German and the olympics has a special rule that says all Germans get to start races early, do athletes competing as Germans get to benefit from this rule? Of course they do because for all intents and purposes they are Germans for the olympics.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/01/28 09:34:29
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2009/01/28 10:33:06
Subject: Re:Another question about He'stan
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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yakface wrote:If an athlete gets to compete in the olympics "as a" German and the olympics has a special rule that says all Germans get to start races early, do athletes competing as Germans get to benefit from this rule? Of course they do because for all intents and purposes they are Germans for the olympics.
Damn sneaky germans, I knew they were up to something.
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Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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