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For arguments sake, I'll post the chaos list that I would like to see beaten. I need your help to build a list using any army that will massacre the chaos list. Even if its chaos vs chaos.

Sorcerer Mark of Slanesh, Lash of Torment, Wings
Sorcerer Mark of Slanesh, Lash of Torment, Wings
5 Nurgle Marines w/ 2 x Melta Gun
5 Nurgle Marines w/ 2 x Melta Gun
5 Nurgle Marines w/ 2 x Melta Gun
3 x Rhino w/ Havoc Missle Launcher
2 x Obliterators
1 x Defiler w/ 1 extra close combat weapon, 1 heavy flamer, 1 battle cannon, 2 DCCW (so 5 attacks on the charge)

Should be 1000pts exactly. Sorcerers with wings are allowed in transports. Transports provide the extra firepower to deal with hordes or used to block attackers whilst dealing with killing lashed units. The Chaos list may also run plasma guns on the nurgle marines, and just an extra combi-bolter on the 3 rhino's.

What breaks this?

honestly? having tactics.

Tactics is good. However, I always work off the assumption that whomever I play against is at least as good as I am.


Offhand I was thinking if you ran something Eldar with wards of witnessing. That practically shuts down the lash (55% failure rate), then you are just fighting army vs army. A large unit of wraithguard with a warlock. Thats good enough to deal with the plague marines, tying them up for the game. It won't scare the obliterators from combat, but a unit of fire dragons in a wave serpent can work wonders on either the oblits or defiler. That leaves 300pts for another troop choice, pathfinders, and maybe a wraithlord with brightlance and ELM.

Maybe that'll work, maybe not. I'm working on getting some wraithguard so I can try this.

Skimmer-eldar are likely the appropriate solution. 3 nekkid Fire Prisms & Eldrad leaves 450'ish pts for Troops - 2 Wave Serpents w/Storm Guardians should fill that out nicely.

Lash loses some of it's utility against shooty armies, if there isn't significant CC power to back it up. Here, once the Sorcerors get within 24", they can move units around, but only 2 Oblits makes that a lot less useful.

The Defiler is AT-bait. Very hard to hide, intentionally coming closer, and only AV 12. Plus the rhinos really aren't a great threat. Yes, 15 plauge marines are annoying to kill, but they aren't that threatening, either. Bring more Oblits instead.

Mech? Kill the Oblits first?

Daemon hunter inqusitor with Hood. all mech army. lots o gene stealers

Librarian w/ Nullzone
2 x 5 Scouts
3 Land Raiders

Mech tau with obscured hammerheads.

An ork player would have to run as many vehicles as possible. Trukks are cheap, and at 1000 pts you might be able to make a decent list that has two battlewagons.

Wraithguard don't work at the 1000 points level, don't bother.

A scoring unit is 400 points. And then you'll want a seer to fortune them. The battlecannon and plasma cannon oblits will eat them for breakfast.

Honestly though, any full mech army, any army fielding an old school hood.

Its a nasty army at 1000 points, but it does rely HEAVILY on lashes to be successful, remove these via a hood or going mechanized, and the army is pretty worthless.

So as was said: Tactics

They've hamstrung themselves by putting too many points into HQ's at this level, pick them apart.

Edit:

Typically you'll find that players that use a crutch list (and dual lash is nothing but a crutch) depend so heavily upon them, that as soon as you take their crutches away or negate them, well, they don't have a leg to stand on in game. Thats what happens when your army is built around the success of two models.

targetawg wrote:Edit:

Typically you'll find that players that use a crutch list (and dual lash is nothing but a crutch) depend so heavily upon them, that as soon as you take their crutches away or negate them, well, they don't have a leg to stand on in game. Thats what happens when your army is built around the success of two models.

Sazzlefrats is just coming off of a stint of playing double-lash chaos, and very successfully. Just because a list can be played by anyone, does not mean you can safely assume that anyone playing it lacks tactical skill to back it up.

Actually when your opponent has something that makes getting the lash off unreliable, I have found that those are the best games. If the lash is going to fail around 30-55% of the time, you need to play like it doesn't matter to the strategy of your game. Otherwise if you chance to expose your junk, you will probably get it kicked, and as its been said then you won't have a leg to stand on for the rest of the game.

So based on the responses thus far.

What about this? Tau.

Shas'El with missle pods, fusion blaster, flamer, hardwired multi-tracker, add some iridium armor and 2 sheild drones and stimulent injector.
2 x 6 firewarriors
2 x devilfish with SMS and disruptions pods, multitracker and target array
3 x hammerhead with railgun, burst cannons, multi-tracker and disruption pods.

There are flaws of course, not being able to take out terminators en masse, and the shas'el is vulnerable to the lash. Maybe I'd toss a hammerhead to run a plasma toting crisis unit of 2 or 3. Still lash vulnerable, but.... the termies won't like it so much.

Mobile Eldar:


Farseer Doom, Runes of warding (these really ruin your day)

10 x DA exarch dual Shuricat bladestorm, Waveserpent TL Shur cannon, SS
10 x DA exarch dual Shuricat bladestorm, Waveserpent TL Shur cannon, SS

Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

^Is that perfect 1000? If not I would take fortune

Sista with triple exorcist?

Dark Eldar with 15 S8/AP2 + wyches?

Played a list similar to this with my mech dark eldar. I had everything in raiders and 2 ravagers and all with night shields. Kill the oblits and the defiler (he had a predator instead) and then just shoot the rest of the army apart at your leasure.

Sazzlefrats wrote:Actually when your opponent has something that makes getting the lash off unreliable, I have found that those are the best games. If the lash is going to fail around 30-55% of the time, you need to play like it doesn't matter to the strategy of your game. Otherwise if you chance to expose your junk, you will probably get it kicked, and as its been said then you won't have a leg to stand on for the rest of the game.

So based on the responses thus far.

What about this? Tau.

Shas'El with missle pods, fusion blaster, flamer, hardwired multi-tracker, add some iridium armor and 2 sheild drones and stimulent injector.
2 x 6 firewarriors
2 x devilfish with SMS and disruptions pods, multitracker and target array
3 x hammerhead with railgun, burst cannons, multi-tracker and disruption pods.

There are flaws of course, not being able to take out terminators en masse, and the shas'el is vulnerable to the lash. Maybe I'd toss a hammerhead to run a plasma toting crisis unit of 2 or 3. Still lash vulnerable, but.... the termies won't like it so much.

a better suit set up would be deathrain, with a flamer for a the commander instead of a target array. lash is only effective out to 24'', so just stay out of range and use the commander and pals to lob autocannon shots at his troops and such. it's also cheaper, points wise.

6 War walkers with starcannons, Shining spears, jetbike autarch and make the rest up with jetbikes