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Considering that the only tactica article on Carnifex's was written in 4th ed, I thought that I would give my two cents on useing the big beasts in 5th edition.

Carnifex Varient #1: Strangler Fex
Scything talons and Barbed Strangler. 113 points
Other Options: None. These beasts only have 1 point to spend while remaining as elites. Could be upgraded to Uberfex but I preffer to keep them lightly equiped.
Personally my favorite, and (IMHO) the best varient of Carnifex. Carnifexes (And Tyranid warriors) really benifited from the new blast rules. Although your 'Fex will still likely miss, the blast will still end up somewhere, and, considering that it is a large blast, you will still likely hit something that you were aiming at. Naturally, it is best at fighting hoards, but a S8 Pie plate (with pinning) will still find a job vs. any foe.
Once, vs Black Reach Orks, I landed the blast on the Nobz unit, instantly killed 4 (Missed one) and pinned the survivor in place. Against Marines it was less succesful (Due to smaller units and armour), but still earned good marks, before provideing good assault support.

Varient 2: Screamer-killer
2xScything talons, Adrenal Glands (WS). 105 points
There are four upgrades that really stick out for this guy. Adrenal Glands (I) allows you to strike before Power Fists, Toxic Miasma allows it to hit Marines on 3+, While Bio-Plasma and Mace tail provide an extra attack.
Frankly, I love CC Fexes. Probably more than is really good for me. However, the Run rule makes them slightly mor viable then before. The Screamer-killer can either go after tanks or heavy infantry (Nobz, Marines) and make a mess of it. My vote for second Best 'Fex.

Varient 3: Uberfex.
Really just a Strangler 'Fex with cc Biomorphs (see Tactica Article in regards to these). I am not in love with these guys, as I preffer to either go cheap (Strangler 'Fex) or Specialized (Screamer or God 'Fex)

Varient 4: Dakka Fex
2x Twin-linked Devourer, Enhanced Senses
Other Options: None. These beasts only have 1 point to spend while remaining as elites.
These guys only rate 4th on my list, mainly because I have never played them, but also because I really think that a 'Fex should be able to fight CC, which these guys can't really do.

Varient 5: God Fex
Either 2x Scything talons or Cruching claws and Scything Talons, plus as many CC bio-morphs as you feel like.
This guy really got a boost from 5th ed. Now, you are talking a 3rd turn assault (Easily) in any scenario except DoW. I would still advise observeing KISS principals, but you will no longer be called nuts for fielding one. Given toxin sacks it can easily take down a Monolith, and is a great peice of Psych warfare (just, remember, if that is all you are getting it for, KISS). The best summary I have heard of this guy is: "Can I has Land Raider?"

Newly improved: In 5th ed, several things have been changed. These are those that got better.
Bio-Plasma: Thanks to "Defenders react", you no longer need to worry about killing your only target, makeing this attack more viable.
Barbed Strangler: due to the new scattering rule, this weapon no longer worries about BS2. Still is a little inacurate, but definately viable.
Close Combat: Run. Simple as that

What ever happened to?...
Some things definately got nerfed by 5th.
Symbiot Rippers+ Thorn back. For Newbies, there is no need or point to take them. For older players who did not realize this... SHAME!
Venom Cannon: There is little to no point in takeing the VC now. It is unable to destroy non-open-topped vehicles, and as most Open-topped vehicles have poor armour, it only really has a place vs. Ork battlewagons that do not have an 'Ard case. By process of elimination, this also makes CC 'Fexes that much more valuable.
Gunfex: See Venom Cannon.

As for the rest, what was said in the Tactica article stands.

Venom Cannon and the Sniper Fex still have a very important place in Nid armies. Keeping vehicles immobilized is extremely valuable.

I agree the venom cannon still has a place, but I'm not so sure it's still a good combo with the strangler (for the classic sniper fex) any more. On the other hand, what other weapn does make a good combo for the venom cannon?, and at least the strangler has the same range - a shame you can't take a Elite fex with a venom cannon...

I like the points you raised, though I also agree that the sniperfex/gunfex has a place in any nid army (I field three). The fact that they can keep vehicles in place or stop them from shooting is invaluable. And when the vehicles are done the BS really works magic on troops.

Personally I would like to say that the dakkafex still has a place, though only against certain armies. Against IG, NOT worth it, against marines...AWESOME. Of course you have problems of getting into range, but if you can give your opponent a headache with other units on the table then hopefully it can survive to start wiping units off objectives.

Also, I'm not entirely happy with cc fexes. When I first started playing in 5th and got my first fex I put together a godfex. Most games it did nothing and I was extremely unhappy with its performance on the table (killed a few orks, killed a few marines etc....). Only once did it alter the outcome of a game and that was because I was playing someone who really seemed to not know what he was doing.

1 thing I would like to mention (and see others add as well) is potential combos. A winning list will contain fexes in it, but you need more than that to win a game.

My 2000pt list now has 6 fexes (3 strangler, 3 sniper), 1 tyrant w/ 3 guard and 47 outflanking stealers. Essentially this gives your opponent 2 options - deploy in the centre of the table and take a lot of BS shots all over his army, or go for the edges and risk getting assaulted by lots and lots of stealers. Of course they can also start the game in reserve, but who wants to lose a turn of firing heavy weapons when you have 7 MCs on the table?

I havent read the 4th edition tactica, but maybe we could start a new one based around the carnifex...

I don't know if a whole update to the Carnifex article is in order. There really are only 3 shooting builds (boom,dakka,sniper) and 2 CC (elite and godfex) builds.

In my opinion your army should stick with all CC fexes or all Shooting.

I think you greatly underrate the Dakkafex. I run three in my list, and they're fantastic for the points.

Now, are they better than the Elite Stranglerfex? I don't know, I've been looking at running one, and they certainly are a solid model, but they suffer badly against tough low count models (like Terminators, Obliterators, other Fexes). With the 2x Devourers, you're going to get ~6 wounds on pretty much anything, and then they're going to have to make saves. With a Strangler, say against 3x Oblits, you're going to get 3 hits at most. Now, granted, you get an Instant Death if they do fail a save, but you're going to scatter off some of the time.

Still, the range is nice, and the extra attack in CC is nice.

That said, CC is not really where a Fex can get its value. CC Fexes are no good, because they're easily avoided. Better that they have a solid shooting attack, and then their CC is a deterrance from simply taking them out in CC. The Screamer Killer is a scary model for not too many points, but the reality is that it won't make CC, or at least not have as much effect as shooting would.

The nice thing about a CC fex, though, is that you know what it has to do. It's a real balancing act to play a Dakkafex right, and mistakes can really cost. With a CC fex, you're going in, no questions asked, so no real chance to screw up. The Stranglerfex is also nice in this respect, since it has plenty of range, and if you do happen to get caught in CC, you're a lot better off than a Dakkafex (50% or so).

Also, as has been said, the Gunfex/Sniperfex is a vital part of any list. You might get by without one, but you'll never go wrong taking 2 or 3.

I have to disagree with gunfex/sniperfex being "vital" to a list. I more than get by without using them and have yet to lose a game since i built my list. Granted i've only played about 10-12 games now but it seems solid. That said i field 5 fexes, a dakka, 2 boom, and 2 cc upgraded boom's and they make a mess of the bad bad people i play. Though I also field enough warriors and small bugs that i don't worry as much about vehicles shooting at me since almost everything has a cover save

I'd say two dakka-fexes, 3 strangler-fexes, and 3 zoanthropes with warp blast. Back it up with a pair of walking Tyrants/guard with stranglers or venom cannons and that's a pretty solid Nidzilla force.

Hulksmash wrote:I have to disagree with gunfex/sniperfex being "vital" to a list. I more than get by without using them and have yet to lose a game since i built my list. Granted i've only played about 10-12 games now but it seems solid. That said i field 5 fexes, a dakka, 2 boom, and 2 cc upgraded boom's and they make a mess of the bad bad people i play. Though I also field enough warriors and small bugs that i don't worry as much about vehicles shooting at me since almost everything has a cover save

5th edition heavily buffed vehicles, to take an army with no dedicated way to stop them is asking for trouble. What do you do when you face mech eldar or land raider spam? Zoans I don't consider to be cost effective unless your fielding them as dual purpose synapse/anti-tank role. Most Nidzilla armies function best with no synapse network. Zoans would be amazing if they had longer range and didn't have to pass a test to fire warp blast.

Exactly. VCs on fexes are the only way to stop landraiders and such. I just played a game last night and the VCs kept my opponents landraider from moving while 3 fexes moved in for the kill. And that was just one landraider. I had 3 sniperfexes and It would have been much harder if he had bought more than 1 landraider to the table.

@Hulksmash. Have you played a landraider? If so what in your list can deal with it?

@phyrix. I did in fact write that against marines the dakkafex is superior. I meant no offense to the dakkafex, but not all situations are for him. I generally play against IG and orks where the BS fex excels. Against marines I would have no problem substituting a couple for dakkafexes.

Also I find fexes occassionally have a place in cc. All I try to do is hit hard at range then use my MCs to stop opponents getting to objectives (generally the stealers in my list wipe them off it so last couple of turns they are racing other units to take it back).

The Crab Claws are a total waste of points, here is some basic math:

Crab Fex - Cruching claws and Scything Talons

Base attacks d6+1 = Average 4 attacks


CC Fext - Scything Talons X 2

Base attacks 4

May be a stupid question but are there any nids that have eternal warrior or invanerable saves??

All creatures within synapse range are immune to instant death. Only the tyrant and zoanthrope have access to warp field which grants a 6+ invulnerable.

Base attacks d6+1 = Average 4 attacks

Actually, that'd be 4.5...

But yeah, 25 points for Crushing Claws vs 8 for Scytals... Not much of a question.

Would Ninjafexes be enough for anti-AV 14 in a list? Assuming they were the only thing in your list capable of smashing through said AV 14 targets.

Warning! Long Response!

Here is my issue w/VC's being "essential". The way i've built my list i have 3 st9 mc's, 2 st10 mc's, I also have a st6 mc who while not great normally is alright in a pinch.

I beat them in hand to hand. But Hulk, how do you kill them when you move 6 inches a turn and they move 12"? If they move more than 6" then they can fire a weapon, i'm ok with that. The whole point of bringing so man MC's is depth. Why is everyone so worried about:

a) a vehicle w/2 lascannon shots
b) a vehicle w/6 Bolter, 4 AC, and 1 Multimelta
c) a vehicle w/2 Flamers, 4 AC, and 1 Multimelta

None of those can do much damage to your list even over 6 turns. Even tripling those number won't get their points back. Granted i run 88 small bugs and another 12 warriors so maybe i'm spoiled. Maybe because my big bugs always have a cover save (well honestly about 75% of the time) due to the warriors maybe i worry less about vehicle shooting.

If they are transporting units that are dangerous then you manuever to give them mulitple spread out MC's where they can only charge one big bug/unit but the LR is within 12" of another MC. You guys are way to focused on a .5 percent chance(w/BS upgrade) per shooting phase to damage a AV14 vehicle. So to guarentee for a single vehicle not to shoot you pay how many points? Even then they'll be able to move 66%(1-3, and 5) of the time so now your up to needing 6 VC's (actual guns not shots) which you can't have to guarentee no movement. Seems like a truly large waste of points. I'd rather save the points and take more units that, while they can't kill a LR, can kill lots and lots of other things.

As for mech eldar they make me laugh. I have 4 St8 Templates, 6 St6 Twinlinked shots, and 10 st6 small templates. Those transports can't really hurt me but i've got a lot of shots with the same range as most of their decent firepower that can stun, shake, immobolize and kill. How are 8 vehicles going to kill 28 synapse wounds and another 22 Carni wounds? Play to your strengths and stop worrying about the other side.

A landraider won't win a game. 2 LR's won't win a game. 2-3 LR's w/10 TH+SS Terminators might but that would rock most lists. LR's are a psycological weapon against a properly build Nid list. BTW i think that pure Nidzilla (ie no warriors or small bugs) is a much weaker list than a balanced approach which is purely my opinion but i do have to reinforce i haven't lost yet in 5th and i haven't even looked at a VC.

Lukus83 wrote:All creatures within synapse range are immune to instant death. Only the tyrant and zoanthrope have access to warp field which grants a 6+ invulnerable.

So one more question where did you find out the synapes creature are immune to instant death?? Ive read that damn codex over and over.

The Sniperfex still has a place as the Venom cannon's purpose was to keep nasty vehicles like Las cannon preds and Exorcists from firing. It doesn't matter if you kill them just getting a shot to hit and glance and stop them from shooting was good enough. I still run 2 sniper fexes along with my zoanthropes

Its not realistic to think you will deal with vehicles in hand to hand. Vehicles can move up to 12 or more and your average 9.5 with a run so catching them is difficult and even if you do you hit on 6's if they moved 12 and 4s if they moved 6 with the carnifex low attacks thats not exactly reliable.

Combat fexes still aren't very good yes you can run so can your opponent so they can run away from your fex.

As far as elite fexes its either strangler or dakka. Both have their advantages, dakka is better if your shooting marines but strangler is nice for shooting hordes. I been running a mix of 1-2 strangler and 1-2 dakka leaning towards 1 dakka and 2 strangler as my tyrants have venom cannon and devourers and I have 2 sniper fexes. Might go with 2 dakka and 1 strangler since I play against marines alot.

I think its in the synapse creature section in the beginning with the special rules. Don't have my codex either.

Cato S. wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:All creatures within synapse range are immune to instant death. Only the tyrant and zoanthrope have access to warp field which grants a 6+ invulnerable.

So one more question where did you find out the synapes creature are immune to instant death?? Ive read that damn codex over and over.

In the Tyranid codex? The section on Syanpse, pg 28.
The second bullet point refers to the ID immunity and the parenthetical states,
" (including the Synapse Creature itself) "

shrug

Hulksmash wrote:
A landraider won't win a game.

You miss the point as to why you still need venom cannons in your army. Mech armies are a big part of the meta game and our only defense against them is the VC.

Sniper fex's are still commonly used.
facing high ammounts of armour?
ruin it, dont have to kill something to take it out of play

and on a note, i now take twice as many lootas if im against nids, fex's dont cope with that many shots each turn

I explained how the list i run deals with mech. What i don't understand is why you think a st10 hit a turn that can only glance is absolutely essential? How is 10 st6 small templates, 8 st6 twin linked shots, and 4 st8 large templates not able to deal with most mech? As for dealing with them in combat i explained that in my post. None of my carnies are pure combat, all have stranglers or devourer which means they can shoot. oh and if you running 12 inches your not shooting me. With the point increase in lascannons las pred's are far more rare and excorcists are even more rare so that isn't what i build my list around.

Oh, and lootas are ace against nids .

@Hulksmash.

When we bring a VC it's not because the we are worried about Landraiders and such. Its because they are the most reliable tank stunner available to nids. Yeah, you have 5 S8 blasts. Still only hits 33% of the time (unless the scatter dice really favour you), then you actually have to penetrate. AV 13 and 14 is tough to beat with any weapon. VCs (@S10) only have to stop them moving and shooting and its all good. Sets them up for the kill w/ your assault fexes.

The one downside I see w/ your force, I really dont understand how you deal with the tanks in cc. hitting on 4+ or 6's most of the time. Even on the charge a fex won't hit with that many.

I really dont mean any offense, but I use 3 venom cannons and I am also undefeated (w/ my latest 2000pt list).

Oh no offense taken. I do understand what you guys are saying. The only thing i have a problem with is the VC being essential, not using it in general. It is by far the most reliable tank stunner but I guess i don't worry about stunning tanks that much. As for my tank hunting in combat the only tanks i can't kill with troops is landraiders and demolishers. that is how i deal with most vehicles, glorious rear armor in combat. That's if the lighter vehicles get through the firepower. And if i hit on 6's in combat they aren't shooting and if i hit on fours i've got a better chance that i would with a VC

Basically my only complaint is people stating it's essential to a good list. I disagree. I believe you can build a great list without one. If it works for you by all means take it

kirsanth wrote:

Cato S. wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:All creatures within synapse range are immune to instant death. Only the tyrant and zoanthrope have access to warp field which grants a 6+ invulnerable.

So one more question where did you find out the synapes creature are immune to instant death?? Ive read that damn codex over and over.

In the Tyranid codex? The section on Syanpse, pg 28.
The second bullet point refers to the ID immunity and the parenthetical states,
" (including the Synapse Creature itself) "

shrug

WOW. I feel stupid now I see it now how did I miss that... So What about a Carnifex?? Can it be killed by id?

@ Cato not if it's in Synapse.

I run LR rush CSM, and there's nothing I like more than Nids without VCs. The Stranglerfex can be, with not too much luck, killed in a turn with the LRs. Everything else can't even touch the raiders, and it's really easy to just drive away.

Actually if they have a cover save you won't even kill 1 with all 3. The numbers say the targeted carnifex will still have 1 wound left Thats assuming the twin linked lascannons all hit and all wound (no unreasonable). And if your "rushing" then your only fire one weapon on each vehicle, or none if you move 12". Just some thoughts

In the Tyranid codex? The section on Syanpse, pg 28.
The second bullet point refers to the ID immunity and the parenthetical states,
" (including the Synapse Creature itself) "

shrug

So wouldn't a SAG technically be able to instant kill a Carnifex?

Grave0 wrote:That and you need double its toughness in strength naked fex is 6 you would need strength 12 max is 10 but I'm not sure about other effects that give something instant death even under synapse.

Force weapons can ID a carni out of synapse range.