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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:39:44
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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...but it bears clarification.
My common sens tells me "NO!" - but it's a question that came up last night between the room mate and I, and it'd be cool to get some input... it was one of those "Can you DO that?" moments...
Can I have a model that "Counts as" something from another codex?
Example: I play Space Marines...can I have a chapter master that Counts as Commisar Yarrick?
My common sense tells me you can only field characters from the codex you're using... but... and this is where it gets odd...
It would be a Space Marine - but counting as Yarrick...
But then again, Yarrick can't lead Marines because he's in a different Codex... but in the Marine Army list, he'd be a Marine with Yarricks abilities... see how this gets really circular, really fast... yeah...
I don't think I'd ever do it - again with the common sense thing... but it a neat question that I'd love to have answered.
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"That's awesome. It's like the 8-bit version of the Necron army. "" -- The Power Cosmic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:41:57
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Frenzied Juggernaut
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Well for general house rules and making sure your opponent knows. then i wouldnt see a problem for it.
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qwekel wants to get bigger, please click on him and level him up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:44:45
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Freaky Flayed One
England
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Strictly no, you cant. The models for codex profiles are provided by GW.
If your saying a model counts as something else you degrade the whole concept of playing warhammer.
However if you dont care about having the right models i guess you could just play with peices of paper instead.
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Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains. - Karl Marx |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:53:50
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Strictly legal, no, you cannot mix codex rules unless they specifically allow it (DH/WH). But for a fun off-the-wall scenario, it could be interesting.
As for the concept of using proxies, I don't quite agree with Darth. But close. IMO, it's OK to try something out using proxies before buying a box of miniatures. But after a couple of times, buy the toys.
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Don "MONDO"
www.ironfistleague.com
Northern VA/Southern MD |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:54:35
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sslimey Sslyth
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Darth wrote:Strictly no, you cant. The models for codex profiles are provided by GW.
If your saying a model counts as something else you degrade the whole concept of playing warhammer.
However if you dont care about having the right models i guess you could just play with peices of paper instead.
Wow, what a horrible attitude.
GW themselves encourage people to use "counts as" models. In fact, the term "counts as" is a term created by GW themselves, not the player community.
I guess you don't like people playing with conversions or scratch builds, either, since they should be buying the GW minis instead? Even the truly awful or uninspired GW minis?
And your first sentence is correct, but not for the reason you state in your second sentence. Strictly, the rules for allies are pretty specific, and a Space Marine army couldn't randomly select a single special character like Yarrick to add as an ally to the SM army; however, that fact has nothing to do with whether or not you are using the actual Commander Yarrick model from GW.
Here's a specific example for you. DE wyches are butt-ugly models. Many people opt to use WFB witch elves instead, as they are much superior models. Myself, I would love to use Satyxis Raiders from Privateer Press, as those models are even more superior, but I play in too many RTT's to get away with using a non- GW miniature.
But, to reiterate, there is nothing in the rules to support your assertion that you have to use specific GW models for specific codex entry, and there is something in the rules that specifically allows you to use any model you like to represent individual codex entries.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:55:14
Subject: Re:I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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I figured as much... it would be more something for afriendly game, than something at the local store...
Also, it wouldn't be so much as proxying a chapter master for yarrick.. but that the Space Marine Chapter Master would have Yarrick's abilities... but then wouldn't be a SM Chapter Master... yadda yadda...
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"That's awesome. It's like the 8-bit version of the Necron army. "" -- The Power Cosmic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 13:56:12
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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With friends, its ok but i normally make sure i balance it so my opponents wont really mind it.
like... you can make his cost double , or negotiate saying his army commander get 1 extra wound if he is nice to let you etc etc.
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ʳʷ ᵖˡᵃʸ ᵖᵃᵘˢᵉ ˢᵗᵒᵖ ᶠᶠ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 15:40:33
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Stormin' Stompa
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I can't see the problem, if there is some consistency.
I use marines and scouts as retinue for my Inquisitor Lord. The marines represent Acolytes with powerarmour and the scouts represent heavy weapons servitors. So there is consistency (sort of).
Using a marine commander to represent Yarrick doesn't swing well with me. But any other Imperial Guard commander model would work fine for me.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 15:44:08
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Frenzied Juggernaut
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Darth wrote:Strictly no, you cant. The models for codex profiles are provided by GW.
If your saying a model counts as something else you degrade the whole concept of playing warhammer.
However if you dont care about having the right models i guess you could just play with peices of paper instead.
wow you sound really rude. And no you dont degrade the concept of warhammer using count as. they're the ones who started the whole concept. get a clue please.
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qwekel wants to get bigger, please click on him and level him up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 18:13:28
Subject: Re:I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Ok, glad I got the answer...
What I was looking for was "Strictly legal, no, you cannot mix codex rules unless they specifically allow it (DH/WH). But for a fun off-the-wall scenario, it could be interesting. "
My friend and I wouldn't really have an issue with it in the friendly games... but it wouldn't fly at the local GW store.
I asked because I'm wondering if I should have my model for Thrasius "count as" something else..or if I should just give him the generic Chapter Master stats.
It would be neat to have a "counts as" from a codex from a force your not playing... I could see alot of fun things...
for a friendly game, it'd be cool..maybe limit it to 1 Non-Codex unit, be it Command, Troop, FA, HS, or Elites...
Oh the possibilites abound...
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"That's awesome. It's like the 8-bit version of the Necron army. "" -- The Power Cosmic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 19:54:16
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Now, the other way is okay, and sometimes more fun. You can grab a Yarrick model and say it 'counts as' Heston.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 20:50:32
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Executing Exarch
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Akula:
The point of the "counts as" rule is to allow people to either make interesting models for their army or to proxy things that they haven't purchased the correct models for.
For example, if you are running a marine army and you didn't have a model for your commander; you could say that Yarrick counted as a marine commander. On the table you would use the model for Yarrick, but in the game he would have all the stats, abilities and equipment of the marine commander. The only difference would be that you're using a different model. I often use the "counts as" rule to field an old harlequin jetbike as either a farseer or a warlock on a jetbike. In either case, the in game effect is that the model follows all the rules printed in the codex for the army that I'm playing.
Now if you and your opponent want to monkey around with the rules, that's all well and good amongst yourselves. Have fun with it, but don't expect anyone else to allow you to mix codexes or anything else that's clearly outside of the rules in pickup games.
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**** Phoenix ****
Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/29 20:57:01
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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On the whole paper debate...GW themselves gave a cardboard Ork Dreadnought in the second edition boxed set of 40K
If we didn't have "This counts as..." we wouldn't have any progress in the game with thinks like titans and superheavys in APOC and all that other Junk!
One problem about space marine Yarrick though...he'd only have a 4+ save. But if I was playing against you I'd let you have a 3+ save.
After all, rules are there to protect the fun!
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Stick to the shadows - Strike from the darkness - Victorus aut Mortis - Ravenguard 1st Company |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 02:35:27
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Phoenix wrote:Akula:
The point of the "counts as" rule is to allow people to either make interesting models for their army or to proxy things that they haven't purchased the correct models for.
For example, if you are running a marine army and you didn't have a model for your commander; you could say that Yarrick counted as a marine commander. On the table you would use the model for Yarrick, but in the game he would have all the stats, abilities and equipment of the marine commander. The only difference would be that you're using a different model. I often use the "counts as" rule to field an old harlequin jetbike as either a farseer or a warlock on a jetbike. In either case, the in game effect is that the model follows all the rules printed in the codex for the army that I'm playing.
Now if you and your opponent want to monkey around with the rules, that's all well and good amongst yourselves. Have fun with it, but don't expect anyone else to allow you to mix codexes or anything else that's clearly outside of the rules in pickup games.
Ahh..you're right. The rule is meant for players to be able to field proxies..like you said...they don't own the model.
So it's an "off table" concession - that my Apothecary (for example) actually represents a Chaplain...
It's a model swap thing... got it.
thanks
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"That's awesome. It's like the 8-bit version of the Necron army. "" -- The Power Cosmic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 03:28:35
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Lictor
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"Count as" IS encouraged as long what "count as" is consitant through out the army. I've played tomb king skeleons as LatD in major tournaments with absoultely no problem.
Knock your self out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 03:44:51
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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If you were mixing multiple codecies(except for the obvious exception of the Inquisition)... I wouldn't play against such a list. However, if you were using minis from different armies to represent one consistant army, I wouldn't mind at all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/01/30 03:45:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 04:04:28
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Yeah, it sounds like you got "counts as" kind of backwards.
If all the rules fit, you can alter what models you represent them with.
You can't alter the rules, even if you could make it fit model-wise, without your opponent's permission.
That said, Yarrick doesn't seem like he'd make a good space marine. At all.
He's S3 and T3, which is decidedly not space marine. He only has a 4+ save too.
What abilities do you want from him? The force field? The Bale Eye?
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 10:02:24
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Stormin' Stompa
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A bit of clarification is needed.
Do you mean that you would like to field Yarrick (rules and all) in a Space Marine army?
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/01/30 13:35:23
Subject: I'm almost ashamed to ask this...
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Steelmage99 wrote:A bit of clarification is needed.
Do you mean that you would like to field Yarrick (rules and all) in a Space Marine army?
Yeah.. for some reason, I thought you could do exactly that.
The question came up between me and my room mate after a long night of drinking and gaming... so I'm not surprised how bass ackwards I had understood it.
In a friendly game, that'd be one thing... but that's about the only place you could do it. No more allies in 5th ed... I miss 2nd Ed...it was fun to use allies... but it wasn't fun to spend 50% of your 2000 pt army on Individual Characters... that was insane.
So..in closing... No..I can not field Yarrick (or any other non SM character) in a SM army. That's why we have the codexes.
Heed the warniongs about alcohol kids... it makes strange things make perfect sense at the time.
In the end, you'll end up talking about them, and looking like a total grot's rear-end.
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"That's awesome. It's like the 8-bit version of the Necron army. "" -- The Power Cosmic |
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