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So my friends and I have finally reached the 2k level of gaming, and it certainly has changed how the game plays out (not to mention that the games go longer)

This is my list so far:

HEROES
Noble - 138
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, Helm of Fortune *GENERAL*

Noble - 183
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, BSB - Standard of Balance

Mage - 175
lvl2, 2x Dispel Scroll

Mage - 150
lvl2, Jewel of Dusk

CORE
21x Spearelves - 214
full command

21x Spearelves - 214
full command


SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 215
full command, Banner of Ellyrian

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
full command

RARE
2x RBT - 200
2x Great Eagle - 100

TOTAL - 1994

So as of now, my friends run Tomb Kings, Dwarfs, and Dark Elves. The TK player runs a pretty standard chariot-heavy list, the Dwarf player is leaning toward an Anvil-fueled fast assault list, and the Dark Elf player has a pretty mixed list. I'm noticing that the magic that I'm bringing is not really doing much (a bit difficult when I'm facing 5-7 DD from others with only 7PD of my own), and barely making some magic defense (god how I hate TK magic).

I feel like I'm lacking some punch in this list, but I'm not sure what I could whittle down to improve on this list.

Well if you want to get any magic through, I think you have to go with an archmage.

The hero set up I like when not running a Prince on a Dragon is

Archmage lvl 4 with annulian crystal, ring of fury, silver wand/dispel scroll


Mage lvl 2, dispel scroll, seer staff

noble bsb dragon armor, shield, barded steed, banner

You have 8 casting dice and 6 dispel dice with the crystal stealing one of their casting dice to give you a dispel.

If you don't like the archmage you might want to go with a Prince or a Noble with the Starlance on a barded steed for str 7 against chariots.

I'm not sure you want two spear units. I usually run 1 Spear unit if any going for 10 archers instead to give you more points for other stuff like an archmage.

Don't buy command for Dragon Princes unless you want a banner or a champ to give them a magic item like the Amulet of Light for Magical attacks to hurt wraiths and etherals and deny wood elves ward or maybe Helm of Fortune on the champ.

Go 6 on Dragon Princes unless you going to put the standard bearer with that group so you can lose one and still have good frontage.

Swordmasters in groups of 7 as flanking crunchies who if they survive can do some good chopping work pretty well for me.

Depending on how much shooting you expect to see. Swordmasters for the mage bunker might be better because they kill more so less strike backs against your mage. However they don't hold up too well to concetrated shooting.

2 RBTs and 2 Eagles is good. Eagles are some of the best points spent in the list for march blocking, seige machine hunting and baiting.

The problem I have with the Annulian Crystal is that against my friends (and keep in mind we try to run the same lists against one another unless we come up with some alternate list that we want to try out for fun), is that against TK and Dwarfs, it's useless. If I were playing in an environment that had more traditional magic users, I'd definitely put it in there, but for the time being, it seems like rather a waste of points (really should stress that the aforementioned armies - TKs, Dwarfs, DE - are what I play against exclusively).

I'm mildly considering subbing 1 spear unit for archers, though I haven't been disappointed with blocks of spears so far.

Command on Dragon princes is one of the first places I trimmed off. The unit with the the full command acts rather like the spearhead for the list as they ride along with the non-BSB noble, and generally I like to take challenges by unit champions with the Drakemaster in that unit so the noble can do more damage to the enemy's RnF. Tends to do pretty well. My issue so far has been my notoriously bad rolling where-in I tend to flop all my charge attacks and getting stuck in prolonged CC.

Swordmasters are great....if you're not facing too much shooting. All three opponents I face (TK, Dwarfs, DE) are loaded with it. Coupled with relatively weak magic, I'll have to pass on them for the time-being, I think.

I'm considering dropping an eagle, actually. Especially since march-blocking is useless against 2 of my 3 opponents, and those same 2 are relatively undeterred by eagles (one has T4 heavily armored troops, the other can usually win by CR and Fear alone), so even the "baiting" aspect of the eagle is a bit lost. Thankfully, they're both relatively light on warmachines. I'm definitely both RBTs , though. Those things are invaluable.


It's rough - I want to maintain the Caledor theme with this list, but want to at least bring out decent numbers and avoid putting in a dragon for now. The second spear unit does seem to be the best other unit to break down to get points, but then I'm down in numbers....Hrm.

Question: Should I drop the second block of Spears for archers and other toys or keep 'em and drop something else?

Well the bow fire is not going to do much against the dwarfs, but against the elves they could be nice depending on the DE army composition.

Hrm.

What if I give the not-BSB noble the Sword of Might instead of the lance and find 5 points to drop a musician from one of the spears units?

I'll give you +comp for no Dragon, my 'Caster' 2250 List is Arch Mage lvl 4 Book of Hoeth, Dragon Mage lvl 2 Ring of Fireball-goodies and Silver wand, Mage lvl 2 Annul crystal or 2x disp scrolls

HEROES
Noble - 149
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might *GENERAL*

Noble - 183
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, BSB - Standard of Balance

Mage - 175
lvl2, 2x Dispel Scroll

Mage - 150
lvl2, Jewel of Dusk

CORE
21x Spearelves - 214
full command

21x Spearelves - 209
Sentinel, Standard Bearer

SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 215
full command, Banner of Ellyrian

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
full command

RARE
2x RBT - 200
2x Great Eagle - 100

TOTAL - 2000

Small tweak, just changed the lance on my General to a Sword of Might. I feel like this might be just enough to give an extra *oomph* needed in case I flub my charge attacks (which sadly is common).

Blank wrote:I'll give you +comp for no Dragon, my 'Caster' 2250 List is Arch Mage lvl 4 Book of Hoeth, Dragon Mage lvl 2 Ring of Fireball-goodies and Silver wand, Mage lvl 2 Annul crystal or 2x disp scrolls

Yeah, I tried to avoid the Dragon if only because it seemed cheesy, though in the context of a Caledorian Asur army, it wouldn't be totally out of place. I do have one brewing, though since my friends seem to have no issue with bringing out their big guns (Anvil, though thankfully not Thorek; Sorceress/Dreadlord on Black Dragon), so I won't feel terrible about plopping down a Star Dragon later on.

a noble with the battle banner (alot of points) but definetily worth it against tomb kings (Adds D6 to combat resolution)

Ok, definitely going to drop the 2nd Eagle for other gubbins.

HEROES
Noble - 149
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might *GENERAL*

Noble - 218
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, BSB - Battle Banner

Mage - 175
lvl2, 2x Dispel Scroll

Mage - 150
lvl2, Jewel of Dusk

CORE
21x Spearelves - 214
full command

21x Spearelves - 209
Sentinel, Standard Bearer

SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 215
full command, Banner of Ellyrian

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
full command

RARE
2x RBT - 200
1x Great Eagle - 50

TOTAL - 1985


What to do with the remaining 15 points...?

Just some food for thoughts.

Spearman in ranks of 7x3 vice 6x3. That saving would allow you to give both units full command and the banner of lion courage or banner of arcane protection. Remember one of your core units can take a 25 point banner.

Your opponent is not scared of eagles so what they are march blockers to slow your opponent down.

Your magic is weak but is fixable. Try the banner of sorcery in the PG. Yes that does nothing to your dispell pile but HE can not have everything. Think about dropping the two 2nd level mages and go for an archmage.

What lore do you use?

feel free to send me a PM. My daughter plays the HE and she is only nine. She has fun but forgets to do certain things.

garythewargamer wrote:Just some food for thoughts.

Spearman in ranks of 7x3 vice 6x3. That saving would allow you to give both units full command and the banner of lion courage or banner of arcane protection. Remember one of your core units can take a 25 point banner.

I still have 15 points to play with - I can conceivably use 5 of those to buy back that 2nd muso and some left over.

garythewargamer wrote:
Your opponent is not scared of eagles so what they are march blockers to slow your opponent down.

The thing with the eagles is that I have only one opponent that is affected by march blocking, and as mentioned, my eagles don't exactly frighten my opponents. Hence dropping to just one eagle.

garythewargamer wrote:
Your magic is weak but is fixable. Try the banner of sorcery in the PG. Yes that does nothing to your dispell pile but HE can not have everything. Think about dropping the two 2nd level mages and go for an archmage.

What lore do you use?

As the old saying for High Elves goes, "They can do everything well, but not everything well at the same time". Yes, my magic is weak, but that was somewhat deliberate. The focus of this army is close combat. I run two mages defensively with High Magic - almost exclusively to just provide some amount of defensive support to the army. While I see the benefits of the Banner of Sorcery, I don't really feel like it's warranted in this list. Were I choosing to go magic-themed, I would certainly run the banner, but as it is, I think it takes up too many points for an aspect of play that I'm not focusing on.

As for the Archmage v. 2 lvl2's: This switch always seemed like one of those "preference" choices. Some people strongly encourage the archmage for being able to cast with more dice, and others (like myself) who prefer the flexibility of two lower level mages (also, I miscast with alarming frequency, so it doesn't hurt to not put all my eggs in one basket).

You bring up some very good thoughts. I am working on a close combat HE based around white lions, sword masters and lion chariots. War eagles are fun and you do have one. I played against a very good undead general the other day and had a RBT, crew and eagle left at the end of the game. The eagle refused to charge anyone, could not pass the fear test. I guess he was smarter than I was. Korhil as the only HE hero who can ride a lion chariot just cries out to be used. I just ordered him and who knows I may only use him once or twice. My daughter likes the magic and shooting of the HE. I want to run a list like yours close combat. Probably why I run Bretonnias.

I love using Korhil in a Lion Chariot. it's pure awesomeness. Ive used him a few times and every time he was very effective. and as far as Special Characters go, he's pretty low key. He's only a hero with a weapon that gives you +2 str and killing blow with a lion pelt. and he;s immune to poison. Not a big deal, there isn't that much poison. He is IMO the most correctly pointed Special Character in the game. they are usually either Way too expensive or way too under priced. in this case they got him Spot on!

Back to the fifteen point spare that you have. Consider the amulet of light, magical attacks for everyone in the unit. Undead have those wraith things which can be a real pain. Just a thought.
Sword masters are a pain to get into combat but once they get there look out. They seem to draw a lot of shooting but the shield 1 HE spell helps. Giving them the banner of E which allows them to ignore terrain is a help. Yes it works really good on the dragon princes.
Where I play we have no TK players, several DE very good players and one short one player.

If I were entering a tournament, I would definitely put in the amulet of light, considering how ubiquitous undead (VC) armies are. As it is, though, I'm just playing against friends, so for now it's a fairly useless item.

Not really looking to add any other types of Specials into the list, minus perhaps a chariot. Trying to keep up the Dragon Princes of Caledor theme.

So I've been thinking that I may drop the second unit of spears I have for 10 archers instead. I did rather like having the two large blocks of spears, but I think I really need the points elsewhere.

I also dropped the Jewel of Dusk from the second mage and threw in some more Magic Defense. I realize that the extra PD wasn't really affecting things too much, so I figure I'd drop it for some more magic counters.

HEROES
Noble - 149
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might *GENERAL*

Noble - 218
barded steed, dragon armor, shield, lance, BSB - Battle Banner

Mage - 175
lvl2, 2x Dispel Scroll

Mage - 175
lvl2, Ring of Corin, Dispel Scroll

CORE
21x Spearelves - 214
full command

10x Archers - 110

SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 215
full command, Banner of Ellyrian

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
full command

1x Tiranoc Chariot - 85

RARE
2x RBT - 200
1x Great Eagle - 50

TOTAL - 1996


So at the loss of a big unit of spears, I gain a chariot, some extra shooting and a chance to destroy one magic/runic item in my enemy's army. Overall a bit more mobile to boot.
I also lose a Power Die, but considering that everyone else I play against has heavy magic defense anyways, I don't think it'll be such a loss.


Any suggestions?

I really don't think the Ring of Corin is worth it. For the same amount of points the Ring of Fury is infinitely more useful as it can be used each magic phase instead of once.

IsThisIt1015 wrote:I really don't think the Ring of Corin is worth it. For the same amount of points the Ring of Fury is infinitely more useful as it can be used each magic phase instead of once.

Yeah, I'm vacillating on this issue at the moment. It's a shame they made this a one use only item, especially as its so easy to dispel.

Hrm.