Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alrighty i'm running into a dillema with people.

Fish of fury,

Deploy two devilfishes, or even one, and undeploy your troops and shoot your enemy, they can't assault.

When you shoot under neath to hit the enemy, do they get a cover save?

If they shoot you, do yo get a cover save?

Well id be surprised that your bases provided with the Devilfish sit your vehicle up high enough that the Tau Fire Warriors can see from their models heads any of the enemy.

But if you can see from Models Eye View from your Fireworriors to the unit your shooting at, then i doubt they would get cover from the vehicle as its probably not blocking LOS if they just deployed behind it due to its sitting up so high.

That said, it probably isnt blocking LOS to your models either in that particular case. However just cause you cant see through your own vehicle from Models Eye View, does NOT mean your models cant be seen from another unit automatically. YHou have to draw line of sight from your "heads" while they only need to draw it back to a part of your body like torso, legs etc.

You literally have to go on a model and case by case basis for this. Get down to Models Eye View and see what your models could see and vice versa.

Exactly as Marius Xerxes said, but I am just wondering: How high are your Devilfishes off the ground? My Tau friend that I always play against has them, and they don't seem that far up off the ground..?

draw an imaginary line from your models head to any point on the enemy model, if you can do so, you can see them, if not they are out of LOS, unless you can draw said line to EVERY point on the enemy, they get a cover save.

This is all in your rulebook.

Yes - apologies.

I was just referencing to Skimmers and TLOS (as skimmers in 4th were different, and i've just recently jumped into 5th edition and haven't ran into this yet)

But thanks!

I guess TLOS is how it works, even for skims~

Finding out that its pretty - Fish of fury is not viable anymore hm.

I have Tau. I play with devilfish. If you put them on the highest flightstand that GW makes (there are 4 heights) your firewarriors can see under the devilfish. So long as their target is on the same flat plain as they are. If either are elevated than LoS is blocked. I have proven this several times with a laser pointer. The firewarriors have clear LoS to the feet of any infantry directly infront of the devilfish, which is 8 1/2 inches away from the firewarriors, up to about 16 inches away, which is beyond their rapid fire range anyway.

I always give my opponent a 4+ cover save because I am shooting through another unit, there is no way around that one. Most people except this as it means the firewarriors may be shot in return. But FoF is no longer safe from assault. Your opponent may remove models from the back of the unit, Declare a double assault, attack the devilfish and the firewarriors.

Tau have other problems besides FoF not working well anymore. They were designed to survive in 4th edition rules, and 5th edition rules have neutered them. My advise is put them on the self until they get a rewrite to actually work with 5th edition rules.

In most cases, it's okay to give the enemy a cover save. The majority of enemy units that FoF is used against have an armor save of 4+ or better anyway.

Actually, you would have to give them a cover save, as you are shooting through a unit. Even though it's a vehicle, it still has a base, and though your FW's LoS may not be blocked (keep in mind the landing gear), the Devilfish's unit area extends below its hull to the ground. That's also why nothing can move/assault directly under it either.

It's the same idea when firing between two Gun Drones; as this time your are firing through the gaps of your own unit. With flying/skimmer bases, you can't ignore the air under the actual unit. You can see through it, but it's still part of the unit.

Note: The rule for staying outside 1 inch of other units while assaulting has been removed in 5th ed, meaning your FW's are more susceptible to assault, so judge your distances carefully.

You can still do it with eldar, though!

Star engines, shoot your avengers from 18" range, then move the serpent in front of them. They cant be shot back, but it means the serpent can probably be assaulted. but since its a skimmer...

Zacarius wrote:
Tau have other problems besides FoF not working well anymore. They were designed to survive in 4th edition rules, and 5th edition rules have neutered them. My advise is put them on the self until they get a rewrite to actually work with 5th edition rules.

Ah, the tears of the dissatisfied army owner are so delicious... almost as tasty as Necron player tears.

Don't listen to this. Tau are just fine as a playable army. Simply because one trick in their bag isn't so great doesn't ruin the army. Their line troops still have the best basic weapon in the game, it's still a very mobile army, and they're one of the few armies that can consistantly take away cover saves in the shooting phase thanks to Markerlights.

Zacarius wrote:
Tau have other problems besides FoF not working well anymore. They were designed to survive in 4th edition rules, and 5th edition rules have neutered them. My advise is put them on the self until they get a rewrite to actually work with 5th edition rules.

Nooooo!!!!!! But.... but.... I just got done playing my 5th 5th edition game with my Tau.


Seriously though, FoF works fine why wouldn't it? You still can't pass under a Devilfish, just make sure when you drop your firewarrior team down that they are at max range, or close to it. And unless the marine player just got out of a rhino, he won't be bunched up, meaning after the first one makes the assault, he won't have the inches left to reach your fire warriors. (I'm 5 for 5 in 5th edition for this tactic)


Basically what Cervidal said.

synchronicity wrote:Actually, you would have to give them a cover save, as you are shooting through a unit. Even though it's a vehicle, it still has a base, and though your FW's LoS may not be blocked (keep in mind the landing gear), the Devilfish's unit area extends below its hull to the ground. That's also why nothing can move/assault directly under it either.

It's the same idea when firing between two Gun Drones; as this time your are firing through the gaps of your own unit. With flying/skimmer bases, you can't ignore the air under the actual unit. You can see through it, but it's still part of the unit.

Note: The rule for staying outside 1 inch of other units while assaulting has been removed in 5th ed, meaning your FW's are more susceptible to assault, so judge your distances carefully.

Thanks. Yeah 1'' is gone, but thats here i shove the gun drones on the sides to extend the inches,either my enemy has to assault gun drons, or walk around.

Sazzlefrats wrote:

Zacarius wrote:
Tau have other problems besides FoF not working well anymore. They were designed to survive in 4th edition rules, and 5th edition rules have neutered them. My advise is put them on the self until they get a rewrite to actually work with 5th edition rules.

Nooooo!!!!!! But.... but.... I just got done playing my 5th 5th edition game with my Tau.


Seriously though, FoF works fine why wouldn't it? You still can't pass under a Devilfish, just make sure when you drop your firewarrior team down that they are at max range, or close to it. And unless the marine player just got out of a rhino, he won't be bunched up, meaning after the first one makes the assault, he won't have the inches left to reach your fire warriors. (I'm 5 for 5 in 5th edition for this tactic)

Basically what Cervidal said.

Yeah that is what i thought! Though after getting some bad thoughts about it (lol) i was going to say PEACE OUT to my Tau army.

cervidal wrote:

Zacarius wrote:
Tau have other problems besides FoF not working well anymore. They were designed to survive in 4th edition rules, and 5th edition rules have neutered them. My advise is put them on the self until they get a rewrite to actually work with 5th edition rules.

Ah, the tears of the dissatisfied army owner are so delicious... almost as tasty as Necron player tears.

Don't listen to this. Tau are just fine as a playable army. Simply because one trick in their bag isn't so great doesn't ruin the army. Their line troops still have the best basic weapon in the game, it's still a very mobile army, and they're one of the few armies that can consistantly take away cover saves in the shooting phase thanks to Markerlights.

Thanks for reclarifying all, definetly saved my tau army from evil ebay fees =P

RM