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I'm trying to sum up which issues needs addressing. Please help me.

I would much appreciate if you use a format like.

1. NAME OF RULE/NAMES OF PRINCIPAL UNIT(S) INVOLVED

2. A short summary of the issue. Please keep it short (two to three lines, max).




The purpose of this thread is to sum up. Please don't start discussing the rules here. Make a seperate thead.

I'll just repeat this for good measure.

DON'T START DISCUSSIONS HERE. MAKE A SEPERATE THREAD.

God of War and No Retreat!

If a unit uses God of War to pass its Morale check, does it take No Retreat! wounds? The Morale rules say that a unit that automatically passes its Morale check takes No Retreat! wounds, but the God of War rule does not appear to be automatic: the player makes a choice about whether the unit will retreat rather rolling dice to determine the outcome.

Gate of Infinity and Movement

Can a unit use the Librarian Psychic Power Gate of Infinity to exit a combat it is otherwise locked into? Similar rules such as Skyleap, 'Ere We Go, and Veil of Darkness all make provision for what happens if they are used to remove a unit from a combat it is locked into, and Gate of Infinity does not. In addition, the Deep Strike rules suggest that the unit would be moving, and hence moving out of combat which is prohibited by the locked state of the units.

The Power of the Machine Spirit and Smoke Launchers

Can a Land Raider that used its Smoke Launchers, prohibiting it from firing any weapons, use its Power of the Machine Spirit to allow it to fire one more weapon than it normally would? The answer seems to lie with whether the prohibition defined by the Smoke Launchers is part of what 'normally' defines how many weapons a vehicle can shoot.

Rites of Battle and Soulless

If a unit of Space Marines benefits from Captain Sicarius' Rites of Battle, and is affected by the Soulless rule of Necron Pariahs, then what Leadership value does the unit use to Morale checks, Pinning tests, and Leadership test excluding Psychic Tests? It seems that the question turns on whether the term 'counts as' and 'use' in the rules are equivalent or not. If they are not then the Soulless rule makes their Leadership count as 7, but the Rites of Battle allows the unit to use Sicarius' Leadership of 10, that the unit can uses Ld10 for those tests. Otherwise, if use is counting as, then their Leadership counts as 7 and hence they use 7 for those test.

Thunderfire Cannon
How many Kill Points does the Thunderfire Cannon/Techmarine unit give up? While the T'fire is not a retinue, the Techmarine is an IC, and it seems taht the intent behind the IC/retinue rule is for an IC to always give a separate KP from any unit he is joined or attached to.

Combat squads
Spell out exactly what counts as "deploying" for purposes of splitting into combat squads, ie can a squad in Reserves split when it comes into the game from Reserves? Unit can be split into Combat squad when deployed. Does this mean only the pre-game deployment or does it (as the drop pod rule seems to suggest) cover any time a unit enters the game?

Marneus Calgar Power Weapon/Gauntlets
Can Calgar choose to use the Gauntlets and gain +1 attack for using two weapons. Gauntlets count as two powerfists and would normally give a +1 attack for using two weapons. However, the Two different special weapons rule says that a model with two different special weapons must choose which to use and cam never gain the +1 attack. Which rule applies in this circumstance?

Null Zone and Oracle of Fate

What happens when a unit is affected by both a Null Zone and the Oracle of Fate. The Libarian Psychic Power requires that enemy units re-roll successful invulnerable saves, whereas Fateweaver's Oracle of Fate allows friendly units re-roll un-successful saves. Do the players roll the dice twice, or do these rules cancel each other out?

Drop pod doors, up or down?

Vulkan He'Stan and Allies
If a Space Marine army, that happens to have Allies (say Sisters of Battle, or Daemonhunters), is using Vulkan's Chapter Tactics, do the Allies count as having Twin-Linked Flamers and Meltas, as well as Master-Crafted Thunder Hammers?

Combat squads
if combat squads can happen during deep-strike, can a libranian gate of infinity combat squad a unit?

Shrike and his ability to give infiltrate to a unit

Shrike gives the unit which he joins the Infiltrate ability. Is a Space Marine player allowed to declare during deployment that Shrike is attaching to a unit and then deploy that unit as Infiltrators? Or is the benefit from gaining the Infiltrate ability in this case limited to being able to outflank from reserves?

Nurglitch wrote:Null Zone and Oracle of Fate

What happens when a unit is affected by both a Null Zone and the Oracle of Fate. The Libarian Psychic Power requires that enemy units re-roll successful invulnerable saves, whereas Fateweaver's Oracle of Fate allows friendly units re-roll un-successful saves. Do the players roll the dice twice, or do these rules cancel each other out?

I dont see this as a problem. You can never re-roll a re-roll. So roll all the dice at once, then pick them all up again and re-roll all the dice. Whatever they are at that point is your outcome, as you have both re-rolled the successful saves, and the failed ones from the original roll.

Marius Xerxes:

I agree. However, since there have been threads dedicated to the discussion of that question, it should be addressed in an FAQ.

Retinue's and Bodyguards:
Are Command Squads and Honour Guards considered separate units or retinues/bodyguards? Are Special characters considered upgrades and thereby untargetable? Do captains and Chapter Masters need to start the game with these units respectively?

Apothecary in Command Squad taking upgrades:
Can an Apothecary in a Command squad take upgrades? The fluff states the whole unit are 'veterans', but only 3 or 4 of the marines in the unit are actually 'Veterans'.

Space Marine Librarian using Psychic Powers:
If a Librarian is upgraded to an Epistolary or is Tigurius, can they use more than one power in the same phase? Rules state they can only use a single shooting attack and that they cannot use the same power more than once in a turn, however, can I use two different powers in an assault phase? For example; Quickening and Might of the Ancients.

Telion vs. Camo Cloaks:
When a Scout unit is upgraded to use Telion, do you need to pay for him to have a Camo Cloak since it states the cost is +3 per model in the unit? Also, Does Telion confer Stealth to his unit without the need to purchase Camo Cloaks?

Telion using Eye of Vengeance:
It states wounds caused by his attacks are allocated by his controlling player. 1) Who allocated wounds first the opponent or Telion's controlling player? 2) Can Telion's controller stack wounds or does it need to follow the wound allocation for units where only one wound per model wrapping around until you allocate all the wounds?

Smoke Launchers:
Can smoke launchers be fired if a vehicle moves to the extent that it cannot fire weapons? Define conditions to fire Smoke Launchers? Can a Dreadnought fire Smoke Launchers during a consolidation move?

Power of the Machine Spirit:
Does the Power of the Machine Spirit have a BS of 4?
Can the Power of the Machine Spirit fire Smoke Launchers?

Chapter Tactics (All Special Characters):
The wording is often unclear. *Must an army take the chapter tactic, or *may* they choose to? For example, for Shrike, *must* I replace Combat Tactics with Fleet or do I hace a choice? For Vulkan, does ability give ally armies his ability or do the troops need to have Combat Tactics?

Orbital Bombardment:
Does a Chapter Master need Line of Sight or can they be inside a vehicle with no Fire Points and still call down the strike? The rules state the Chapter Master uses this in the shooting phase and that they can not have moved.

Define 'Army':
There seems to be a lot of issues whether wargear and special abilities will work with allies.

Locator Beacons, Teleport Homers, Chaos Runes(?):
Can your opponents army use them? For Chaos, I believe it simply says 'terminators' may use it. RAW vs. RAI.

Fire Points measuring distance:
When a model inside a vehicle is fireing out a Fire Point, where do you measure the distance? From the Fire Point itself, or from the hull of the vehicle?

Land Raiders
is there a set place to put the sponsons ... must they be both be, front or back; can one be at the front, one at the back;can both on the same side?

The Chapter Tactis for characters is kinda explained in the new Space Marine FAQ.

Under the section asking who's Chaper Tactics you use and if all units replace them etc there is a line that says...

"So, these Special Characters never really have the Combat Tactics rule, as they either exchange for their own Chapter Tactics or the Chapter Tactics of another such special character."

So that part is answered. As for Vulkan, yeah an FAQ would be nice with the level of questions about it. But in my opinon, for now, the RAW is clear. For better or worse.

All of these have been answered in Yak's INAT FAQ. Some of the answers are clearly spelled by a RAW intrepretation of the rules.

G

Steelmage99 wrote:I'm trying to sum up which issues needs addressing. Please help me.

I would much appreciate if you use a format like.

1. NAME OF RULE/NAMES OF PRINCIPAL UNIT(S) INVOLVED

2. A short summary of the issue. Please keep it short (two to three lines, max).




The purpose of this thread is to sum up. Please don't start discussing the rules here. Make a seperate thead.

I'll just repeat this for good measure.

DON'T START DISCUSSIONS HERE. MAKE A SEPERATE THREAD.

You could have used the INAT FAQ's list of questions for the SM codex as a starting point as around 90% of these questions are in there.

Whether or not you agree with the rulings, the other point of the document is try to keep an updated consolidation of all the issues that GW should really look at.

There are some questions we missed, but I'll get them in there in the post-adepticon INAT FAQ update.

Excellent work everybody. Keep 'em coming.

@Marius Xerxes.

Please reread the OP.

@Yakface

Agreed, the INAT FAQ would indeed have served as a starting point. I don't believe that that invalidates the presence of this thread though.

pavonis wrote:Retinue's and Bodyguards:
Are Command Squads and Honour Guards considered separate units or retinues/bodyguards? Are Special characters considered upgrades and thereby untargetable? Do captains and Chapter Masters need to start the game with these units respectively?

This I believe is already answered in the SM FAQ:

Page 104, Mighty heroes, second paragraph. The
third sentence should be changed as follows:
Each also has the option for an extra HQ unit

If you look up page 104, you will find that the words "an extra HQ unit" replaces the words "retinue unit". So at least GW actually answered one that was a bit of a mystery.

pavonis wrote:Chapter Tactics (All Special Characters):
The wording is often unclear. *Must an army take the chapter tactic, or *may* they choose to? For example, for Shrike, *must* I replace Combat Tactics with Fleet or do I hace a choice? For Vulkan, does ability give ally armies his ability or do the troops need to have Combat Tactics?

This one was answered as well, except for Vulkan one can still be a bit ambiguous. It seems special characters or well all units with "combat tactics" must replace it for Chapter tactics.

pavonis wrote:Locator Beacons, Teleport Homers, Chaos Runes(?):
Can your opponents army use them? For Chaos, I believe it simply says 'terminators' may use it. RAW vs. RAI.

This IMHO this doesn't need a FAQ, there are A LOT of scenarios where pure RAW says other opponents may use a special rule/wargear (i.e. tyranid synapse vs other tyranids, Necron rez orb, monolith teleport, etc... vs. other Necrons, almost every type of "teleport" homer out there, etc....). So, pure RAW just doesn't make any sense.

pavonis wrote:Fire Points measuring distance:
When a model inside a vehicle is fireing out a Fire Point, where do you measure the distance? From the Fire Point itself, or from the hull of the vehicle?

This is found on page 66 under the heading "FIRE POINTS" in the RB.

The rules also state you cannot combat squad if a unit starts in reserve.

G

Tri wrote:Land Raiders
is there a set place to put the sponsons ... must they be both be, front or back; can one be at the front, one at the back;can both on the same side?

The word 'sponson' means a projection from the side of a boat or vehicle.

Marcus Iago Geruasius wrote:

Tri wrote:Land Raiders
is there a set place to put the sponsons ... must they be both be, front or back; can one be at the front, one at the back;can both on the same side?

The word 'sponson' means a projection from the side of a boat or vehicle.

That is amazingly unhelpfull. Please go boost your postcount (as if it matters) somewhere else.




As the OP can I please request that the topic is closed.
Thank you to all that actually contributed and followed the one simple instruction (that was stated twice).

Don't ask questions here unless you expect some answers.

G

You didn't really read the original post either, huh?

lol you obviously didnt read what GBF just said.

Teh answer. I think this thread, by design, is unessicarily inflammatory.

*shakes head*

*Nods head*

Sorry.. cant help myself.

Does everything on this board have to be a fight, flame, or idiotic comment?

1. If someone asks a question that can be answered definitively, then why not just answer it?

2. Post counts are irrelevant to me. I have no need to "level up" in an imaginary world.

Thanks!

Because I asked specifically (twice) for people not to turn this into a discussion thread. I asked if people would open a seperate thread to discuss any issues. Hell, a quick use of the search-function will in most cases reveal threads they can join.

Second, your answer wasn't helpfull at all. The definition of the word "sponson" does not help in determining wether I am allowed to glue both of my Land Raider sponson to the same side, nor wether there is a standard to the way they must be attached (front or back).

Steelmage, if you had not responded to Marcus' post at all, then this would still be a list thread with one small hiccup in it. But because you couldn't resist sniping at someone for their comment you encouraged this to spiral into a discussion thread.

Welcome to the party!

I've looked at the FAQ mentioned by Yakface. It does seem to list the majority of these questions - even if not every answer is to the reader's preference. It should serve as a starting poitn for a "please FAQ" list. Perhaps we should request only issues not listed there?

Marcus was not the first one unable to follow the simplest of requests. He was not the first to display either an inability to read or a misguided idea of "I'll do what ever I like bc I roxxor".
He was simply the one I chose to respond to in an attempt to nip it in the bud.

The original reason for this thread was my lack of confidence in GW. I don't think GW "can handle" a document as big and complicated as the INAT FAQ. I am afraid they will look at it and think; "If it is that big, it must because it is made by tournamentgoing a-holes. We dont bother with those, so it can be safely ignored".

I hoped that by keeping it simple, it will have a better chance of being read all the way through. Also it provides a nifty way to cut-and-paste a lot of questions into a mail to, say..........GW.

The point was not to replace the INAT FAQ (impossible), but simply compliment it. The point of the thread was not to provide answers but rather an overview of the questions needing answering. An answering that needs to be provided by GW, not a group of highly motivated gamers.

As an experiment I consider it failed. Oh well, can't win them all.

gah Steel buddy has no one told you Do Not Feed The Trolls. just ignore and move on