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Hi,

I just bought a boxed set of the Assault Marine squat. and i want to paint their right shoulder pad into rising sun shape.

Is someone did paint the rising sun on their model before?

thanks.

What do you mean by rising sun? RA3?

To answer your question, I have not painted a Rising Sun emblem on SM before.

But what are you thinking precisely? Are you thinking of the actual Japanese emblem or something with more of a stylized or artistic influence? It seems there were some SM chapters that had a similiar emblem, hopefully someone else can verify that.

Rymafyr wrote:To answer your question, I have not painted a Rising Sun emblem on SM before.

But what are you thinking precisely? Are you thinking of the actual Japanese emblem or something with more of a stylized or artistic influence? It seems there were some SM chapters that had a similiar emblem, hopefully someone else can verify that.

yes, i'd thinking about the Japanese emblem but a shape that fit to the SM shoulder pad.

I do the BA chapter with my personal desire pad for my assault squad.

I haven't seen it on Space Marines, but i have seen it on other models. Sweet idea in any case. Are you looking for advice on how to do it?

Meh...In my opinion, that could be pushing some boundaries.

I'd think that to some people, a Rising Sun would be just about as offensive as a Swastika.

anyone that is "offended" by how a toy soldier is painted is a moron anyway. IMHO anyway.

Unlike the swastika being directly related to the Nazi regime, the Rising sun is directly related to the Japanese military (they still use it). If you have a problem with the Japanese, the gaming table is probably not the place to discuss it.

However those bothered by real world iconography in general on their TT minis would have a valid argument. Afterall we all know that actual Japanese space marines would mostly revolve around giant transformable titans.

Some people can find any reason to be offended.

Some people are almost never offended.

Most people are in the middle. I think it could upset some people, but certainly not on the level of a swastika. The Japanese were not kind to their conquered foes.

I would suggest doing some sort of stylized rising sun. Maybe put the sun in a corner of the shoulder pad, so it's not exactly like the true Rising Sun. Or use some slightly different colors, etc. If done well, I think it would look really cool.

But, it's your toy soldiers, paint them however you want. Freehanding shoulder pads can be tough, especially since you want them all to look the same. I'd think about doing custom decals and/or casting shoulder pads with an outline of the symbol.

The rising sun flag is not as controversial as the swastika, certainly. Don't take your miniatures gaming in China or Korea though.

I think that to avoid offending anyone at all, you could put a quarter-sun in the front-bottom corner of the pad and have the rays radiating outwards over the rest of the pad. I think that would look AT LEAST as good as a centred sun AND avoid ay possible offense.

Sadetta131 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:To answer your question, I have not painted a Rising Sun emblem on SM before.

But what are you thinking precisely? Are you thinking of the actual Japanese emblem or something with more of a stylized or artistic influence? It seems there were some SM chapters that had a similiar emblem, hopefully someone else can verify that.

yes, i'd thinking about the Japanese emblem but a shape that fit to the SM shoulder pad.

I do the BA chapter with my personal desire pad for my assault squad.

The rising sun is just a red dot in the middle of a field of white.

but the war flag is this

And as someone has mentioned, the war flag is kinda like flying the rebel flag in the Southern States

here's a suggestion

Moz wrote:Unlike the swastika being directly related to the Nazi regime, the Rising sun is directly related to the Japanese military (they still use it). If you have a problem with the Japanese, the gaming table is probably not the place to discuss it.

However those bothered by real world iconography in general on their TT minis would have a valid argument. Afterall we all know that actual Japanese space marines would mostly revolve around giant transformable titans.

And here I was thinking that Japanese in 40k were the Tau... all those crisis suits and such....

Just saying that a Japanese POW would see as many horrors behind a rising sun as a Holocaust survivor would see behind a Swastika.

It's not that I have a problem with the Japanese, as that would be just about as silly as having a problem with 21st century Germany.

In terms of 'being offended by the way that people paint their miniatures', If you're not offended by a Swastika (Painted on a toy soldier or not), then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Anyway, I never intended to cause a thread hijacking (I don't want this to go the way of the SS Inquisition thread), so all apologies. Just thought I'd bring up a point.

I'd use different colours, e.g. red on yellow, that will keep the geometric format while defusing the Japan aspect (unless of course you want a whole 'future Samurai' etc theme)

Fluffwise, it seems fine, as an extension of the four-arrowed Fast Attack symbol - so long as it doesn't end up accidentally looking like a Chaos eight-arrowed symbol!

It shouldn't be too hard to paint - a circle, and lines all pointing at the centre of that circle. Making a whole squad look exactly the same will be hard, just as with any handpainted symbol - personally I'd make them all slightly different, representing individual handcrafted armour

The red dot in the center of white is the 日章旗 'Sun Flag'
The 旭日旗 'Rising sun flag' is the rayed version.

Both are entrenched in Japanese military history. Both are still used today. The rayed 'rising sun' version is definitely connected to people's feelings of Japan during WWII though. So, as this thread points out, you might catch flak from someone - even if it is not your intention.

Actually, i would paint in half sun with four sunbrust lines to conceal the "offense" that you guys discussed about.

another purpose for this post, i want to know how to paint this kind of shape.

You just described it...what more do you need to know?

Make circle, make 4 lines...done!

i think is a good idea and if people are offened by that then so be it thats the past lets look forward

Chrysaor686 wrote:Meh...In my opinion, that could be pushing some boundaries.

I'd think that to some people, a Rising Sun would be just about as offensive as a Swastika.

People like you annoy the piss out of me. Oh god forbid that someone do ANYTHING that remotely resembles something from the past that was once "bad" Then again me mentioning God would prolly offend some people. Grow some balls and stop walking on eggshells

KingCracker wrote:People like you annoy the piss out of me. Oh god forbid that someone do ANYTHING that remotely resembles something from the past that was once "bad" Then again me mentioning God would prolly offend some people. Grow some balls and stop walking on eggshells

And people like you need to grow up.

Instead of instantly degenerating into some flame (when I had done literally nothing but state my honest opinion), you could've easily stated what you had to say in a way that people would actually bother to merit. But no. Went straight for the throat, with no rhyme or reason. Really, how do you get along in the world, overreacting to everything that annoys you?

The treatment of Prisoners of War and captured territories by the Japanese during World War 2 was known for being ludicrously harsh, and since The Rising Sun was used consistently throughout WW2 Era Japan, it has very strong conotations. So what, the people that have been f*cked over by the Japanese can't have an advocate? And you really get offended by it when they do? Well, sh*t. Nazism was in the past. Is it okay to parade it around because it happened such a long time ago, and now shouldn't be considered to be "bad", as you put it? You'll probably end up saying "Of course not", but you have to look at it this way: It's the same damn thing, on a smaller scale. And lives aren't relative.

Go try telling any former POW that 'The past is the past', and that what has happened to them was only, quote unquote, bad. I dare you.

I'm pretty sure mentioning God doesn't depict visions of torture in anyone's mind. Just because I'm a humanist does not make me afraid of mentioning every last possible touchy subject, thanks.



Anyway, Sadetta13, again, I am very sorry for accidentally trolling your thread. It's not widespread offensive, I was just trying to say that you might catch some flak for it. And then it kind of got out of hand. I'm not personally offended by it, because I can kind of picture what you're going for. But just know that some people might.

Sure if what you are talking about is taken out of context, yea the POW would be totally pissed off and rightfully get upset. NOW if I were to then say, yea but we are talking about painting minitures that way..... I would put my money on it that they would tell YOU to stop being so ridiculous. The only reason I got so aggravated with what you wrote is because of previous posts youve already done about that guy that wanted to paint his Inquisition up to resemble the SS.

KingCracker wrote:Sure if what you are talking about is taken out of context, yea the POW would be totally pissed off and rightfully get upset. NOW if I were to then say, yea but we are talking about painting minitures that way..... I would put my money on it that they would tell YOU to stop being so ridiculous. The only reason I got so aggravated with what you wrote is because of previous posts youve already done about that guy that wanted to paint his Inquisition up to resemble the SS.

Sure, they might laugh at it. But then again, they might be offended that someone has taken numerous hours to recreate something that they considered offensive in the first place? There's always the off chance.

And I do believe that the only thing I said in the SS thread was kind of a result of me misunderstanding his first post (I had thought he was planning on detailing Swastikas onto some SS-modeled troops), and I told him to be prepared to be labeled as TFG.

You might be thinking about the 'criteria of a TFG' thread, in which I stated that plastering your army with offensive iconography automatically qualifies you for TFG status. In no way do I think that the Rising Sun is an instant qualification as an offensive icon (Unless of course it was done specifically to offend POWs or the Chinese, which is a stretch of the imagination any way you look at it), just that it will be extremely offensive to a select group of people (who have every right to be offended). I would definetly not call someone who painted Rising Suns on their Marines a TFG, but it's definetly a different story for Swastikas, or say the Triangle of the KKK (Both of which I have seen).

Firstly, I have never and will never reply again to threads like this. Just with the rise of these kinds of threads I am tired of seeing them. Please LOCK THIS THREAD asap.

<rant>


Why do these threads allways degrade into a arguing match over people with a complete lack of tact? Why instead of everyone spouting off about all of the "THIS IS WRONG" instead of "This might be wrong. And heres why...".

I know you tried to start with that Chrysaor but your both wrong. The rising sun flag is still in common use today. A very good friend from college is Japanese and he always used a rising sun flag on his stuff. I don't know, national pride or something... And you know what? When we played many a game over our 4 years at one the the MOST political active form of institultions known no one ever gave him crap for it.

Now I am not saying that there are not very bad things tied to the history of the flag, nor of the swastika, and I would not use either but there are horrible things ied to every flag.

Cant use the Union Jack - Colonialism, the Zulu Wars, Slavery...

Can't use the American Flag - One of the last "civilized" nations to ever give up slavery, we are the only nation in history to ever decimate entire city populations with nuclear weapons...

Can't use the French flag...Well, cus their French (j/k by the way)

Get my point? It is the inflexibility of humanity that will lead to cockroaches being the dominant species on this planet.


Do you know this person in real life? No

Do you have to play this person? No

Does a faceless, emotionless page in cyberspace allow anyone in the world to harp on and on on some guy you have and will never meet because he chose to do something you don't approve of? Most assuredly YES.

If you don't like it don't post. Skip it and move on. Don't start a fight.

A smart man once said "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana.

</rant>

And hey...I am also a historical gamer. I have a very large confederate army and a Flames of War US army.

Who do I bring this up? I am married to the most beautiful woman in the world who still loves me even though I have both of these...Oh yeah, and she just so happens to be black. And she still loves me because one thing..well, several but the one that is relevant - ITS JUST A GAME. It is not who I am or what I believe.


Sorry for that folks...just been alot of these threads lately and I personally think they should be locked as soon as they crop up to save everyone from themselves.

A very eloquent response,burb1996 , and one with which I agree. Normally, if someone disagrees with any iconography I use I tell them to ask me why before they bitch about it.

Now, that said...

Sadetta131 : About a year after RT release I created a chapter called the Sun Legion. As the name suggests I drew on icons depicting the sun from a variety of cultures, including the Japanese. My Chapter Commander's personal heraldry was a stylised form of The Rising Sun, though using a gold icon on a blue background. I have long since ceased using this chapter (for no reason other than I fancied a change) but I found that the placing of the icon on a shoulderpad was helped by a little thought about the 3d shape of the pad itself, which is more heavily curved toward the top.

If you decide to use the Rising Sun as inspiration I would suggest placing it on the pad a little like this:


It's easier to paint because the circular part of the icon follows the curvature of the top of the pad, whilst the straight lines for the rays flow over a lessening curve.

Just a suggestion, though.

The original poster asked for advice on how to paint a rising sun, not on the political and social implications of doing so. If you object to him doing it, then by all means say so in a polite way as he is likely to encounter people who feel the same way as you do in real-life.

But once you've made your point please move on and allow the thread to continue on-topic.


Any further discussion off the topic of actually painting the symbol will be deleted from here on out (so you've been warned!).