Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, my buddy just picked up Warmachine: Prime Re-mix of of E-bay, and since we've both been interested in trying out Warmachine (but, oddly, not Hordes) he's let me flick through the book. We've decided we interested in doing battles of 500 points or less, and I really enjoyed the Protectorate of Menoth background, and he really likes Cygnars warjack models. So we know what forces we're going to play.

I figured I'd pick up the Menoth Battlegroup starter box, and then expand from there to something like the list at the end of this post. Is this in any way a viable list, and what would be it's major strengths and weaknesses vs. Cygnar (I imagine he'll start with the battlegroup set also, if that gives you any hints on what 'caster and 'jacks I'd be facing.

Warcaster
High Exemplar Kreoss 64

Light Warjacks
Revenger 76
Redeemer 81

Heavy Warjacks
Crusader 93

Units
Choir of Menoth (Priest & 4 Acolytes) 20
Temple Flameguard (Leader & 8 Troopers) 77
Knights Exemplar (Leader & 5 Troops) 69

Solo
Paladin of Order of the Wall 19

TOTAL 499

Edit: Fixed number screw-up with Flameguard/Exemplar, implemented Malfred's suggestions from below

Solid list. You'll be interested in swapping out the Repenter for a Redeemer and removing an Acolyte, though.

Knights Exemplar are Leader and 5 Troops, btw.

Oops, I got the Knights Exemplar and Temple Flameguard numbers mixed up.

Is there anything from the expansions that I really should get or be worried about (I'm assuming my buddy & I will just be playing Prime for the time being though.)

Kreoss has the tools to deal with some of the Cyngar stuff. Choir can
make the Warjacks immune to Long Gunners combining fire, though sniped
Long Gunners will go after the next viable target (most likely your choir!).

Kreoss's Lamentation and Anti-Magic spells can handle things like Arcane Shield
or Blur.

Kreoss should be able to mercilessly beat any cygnar prime caster. Zealots with the monolith bearer are probably the best unit you can get.

Isn't there a 'Jack that throws out smoke? I hear he's pretty good at messing up shooty armies.

The Reckoner only provides Concealment to itself.

Really? I thought that cloud of smoke would block line of sight to those behind it as well... Darn.

Well then, I guess I don't play against Menoth enough.

Cloud effects do block LOS to anything behind it.. you cant drow LOS through a cloud effect.. Only problem is it's a 3" AOE probably.. with a medium base.. you're oning getting a 0.5" from the side to hide behind.

You might as well just run directly behind the jack..

I'm not sure the rule, but again, it depends on if it's a special rule that "counts as" concelment, or if it does produce a AOE cloud effect..

It's not even that. It's a rule on a particular model.

Choking Veil gives concealment to the Reckoner plus it reduces
the attack rolls of living enemies within 2" of the Reckoner.

A single paladin will probably just get killed. They're pretty easy to destroy, to be honest, despite their deadliness.

I'd personally in a jack heavy list like you have switch out the paladin for the vassal of menoth to get more utility out of the jacks. Giving the redeemer an extra shot can be really nasty, especially if you're using it for a caster kill on Kreoss's feat turn.

That's what I was saying with the two different types.. If the model itself gains what is considered "concelment" or if the model produced a cloud effect and gained "concelment" that way..

cloud effects and concealment are two different things...and they stack!

READ MY POST...

I was stating that you cannot see through a cloud effect like Exile pointed out.. Mal said that the jack only gives himself concelment...

My point was 1) Was it a cloud effect ability, if so you could hide behind it, or 2) if it was only concelment granted to THAT jack only, then you can still hide behind it and gain a screening bonus...

I never said they were the same.. nor did i say they didn't stack.. I know that... that's why I run Druids in my Orboros army...

I think currently the cloud effects generated by Protectorate include:

Burning Ash cast by the High Reclaimer.
Incinerate from the Cleansers.

Um, is that it?

Testament can kill a model with a spell and generate a cloud effect.

I think he generates it with his melee attacks, too (not sure).

Bat Manuel wrote:Kreoss should be able to mercilessly beat any cygnar prime caster. Zealots with the monolith bearer are probably the best unit you can get.

Monolith Bearer? I am intrigued. Where is this bearer located? Because the Zealots in Prime seemed kind of weak on my first read through.

The13thExile wrote:Isn't there a 'Jack that throws out smoke? I hear he's pretty good at messing up shooty armies.

That sounds like fun.

Spellbound wrote:A single paladin will probably just get killed. They're pretty easy to destroy, to be honest, despite their deadliness.

I'd personally in a jack heavy list like you have switch out the paladin for the vassal of menoth to get more utility out of the jacks. Giving the redeemer an extra shot can be really nasty, especially if you're using it for a caster kill on Kreoss's feat turn.

Is the Vassal a Solo, Caster or what?


sorry to be such a gigantic n00b.

I'm still starting on this stuff, but the Dakka Wiki has most of the
Protectorate models listed.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Monolith_Bearer_Unit_Attachment

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Vassal_of_Menoth_Solo

Cool, I'm actually seeing a use for the articles section

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Cool, I'm actually seeing a use for the articles section

Well, there's plenty of 40k stuff out there, which makes sense given the forum.