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2000 Pts - Dark Angels Roster - 2000 pt doublewing

HQ: Belial, Master of the Deathwing (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Belial, Master of the Deathwing @ 130 Pts
Storm Bolter; Sword of Silence
1 Terminator Armor @ [0] Pts

HQ: Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing (1#, 205 Pts)
1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing @ 205 Pts
...on Land Speeder
1 ...on Land Speeder @ [205] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 235 Pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad @ 235 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x4); Terminator Armour; Cyclone Missile Launcher
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Sword (x1); Storm Bolter (x1); Terminator Armour
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 245 Pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad @ 245 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x3); Terminator Armour; Assault Cannon
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Sword (x1); Storm Bolter (x1); Terminator Armour
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 245 Pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad @ 245 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x3); Terminator Armour; Assault Cannon
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Sword (x1); Storm Bolter (x1); Terminator Armour
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (4#, 215 Pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 215 Pts
Bike Squad; Attack Bike
2 Bike Squad @ [165] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Teleport Homer; Plasmagun (x2); Twin Linked Bolter (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [55] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport Homer; Power Weapon; Twin Linked Bolter (x1)
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter (x1); Multi-Melta

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (3#, 140 Pts)
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 140 Pts
Bike Squad
2 Bike Squad @ [140] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [60] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport Homer; Melta Bombs; Power Weapon; Twin Linked Bolter (x1)

Heavy Support: Land Raider Crusader (1#, 250 Pts)
1 Land Raider Crusader @ 250 Pts
Frag Assault Launchers; Multi-Melta; Power of the Machine Spirit; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolter (x2)
1 Frag Assault Launchers @ [0] Pts

Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 175 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Upgrade to Venerable; Twin Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher

Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 160 Pts)
1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 160 Pts
Assault Cannon; Dreadnought CCW; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor; Upgrade to Venerable

Total Roster Cost: 2000

I'm not sure if I want to make an assault termie squad out of one of those termies. Cause those in a LRC with belial could own.

I have been messing around with the idea of doublewing lately myself. As a DW player, I prefer a stronger terminator element.

Looking at your list, my opinion is that dreads are less than stellar. Points for those might be better spent elsewhere.

As far as CC termies go...I suppose it could work. I don't favor them personally though. Likewise with the landraider, there is an old mantra from 3rd ed that says "1 is a target, 2 are a threat, 3 are unstoppable". While LR's are nice in 5th ed, I have not seen anything that has changed that old mantra.

Instead of picking apart your list any longer, I will just give my take on it.

HQ:
Belial w/ SB SoS

Troops:
1 DW squad w/ HF, Apoth, Std Br, x4 PF, x4 SB, PW
5 DW squads each w/ Ass Can, x4 PF, X4 SB, PW

FA:
2 RW squads each w/ 1 melta, 1 flamer, 1 attack bike with MM

2000 points exactly.

[edit]
Everything except belial is scoring (10 units), it has good anti vehicle capability, and is a very fast, tough force.
I have to say I have yet to try it, but as a DW player, I think it will prove to be an effective threat in the current environment.

Yeah that's a good list but I'd like to stick with Doublewing, unless you just forgot to put Sammael in there too. Why do you think dreads are less than stellar? The thinking behind them in this case would be to draw fire away from the bikes at the beginning so I can use my homers. Also I'd like more long range anti tank. The meltas are nice but too short of range, except for the MM on the attack bikes, and dreads are extra fluffy. I stuck the LRC in there so I could choose to put the assault squad in there. And it's really all I have at the moment to make 2000 points. Unless I get some more termie squads.

Edit: Yeah this list is 2000 pts without Sammael. Thus making the bikes not scoring. And I don't see why you give the bike units 1 flamer and 1 melta. Why not give 1 unit all flamers and 1 all meltas... Otherwise you are only getting 1 shot out of the unit pretty much because what you use a flamer for will not be the same as what you use a melta for.

I should have been clearer, my apologies.

I think the TLLC/ML dread is ok though I am not convinced about venerable status nor the extra armor for DA dreads in general. Points are always so tight in these type of armies when you try and eek out every last ounce of effectiveness and make sure you can keep up with other lists who are far more efficient for their points.
The assault cannon dread I have never had an enormous amount of luck with. Not even as a unit to tie up others, but that could be just my bad luck or what have you. If possible (of course being dictated by what you have available in your collection) I would rather have a second TLLC/ML dread. Two of them will definitely take heat away from the bikes as the opponent will want to try to destroy as many of them as possible as quickly as possible. The assault cannon dread is easy for most opponents to ignore.

As far as sammael is concerned, I was not aware that his inclusion defined a doublewing army. I thought it was merely the combination of DW and RW units.
I was also not aware, nor am I convinced that sammael is required to make RW units scoring, as the consensus is either they are scoring as the codex says, or they are not due to new 5th ed rules. But thats neither here nor there since the issue isn't addressed in the DA FAQ and this isn't the place to debate the subject. I am not an RW player, so I could very well be very misinformed, or misinterpret what I read.

Yeah, I can see the merit behind the LRC now that you explained you need it for that squad you cannot easily replace with something else. In that case, I totally agree with the choice. No other way to really do it and make it effective.

The rationale behind mixing the weapons in the RW squad is for reasons of:
1) Flexibility to react to the situation. Now you have two squads that can threaten either troops or vehicles (with the melta and the krak grenades).
2) Wound allocation. This isn't a main concern, but it is a nice benefit to mixing the weapons in the squad. if you find that you are facing a horde style army, it is now a lot easier to remove the not less important melta, as an example.

But even if you were to use something like I suggested, it would be a simple matter, of course, to just put the two weapons together by exchange for each squad during list set up without having to rewrite points.

I see what you mean with the RW being scoring after reading the dex but, like you said, thats for another thread. I still am thinking about taking Sammael because I think he is a cool character and I'd like to see my opponent's face when they shoot his speeder. I may end up making that second dread another TLLC/ML but I'm not sure. I would for sure take the Assault Cannon dread against a horde army though.

Sammael makes RW troops and says each unit is a scoring unit. There is some debate over whether or not that means that the Landspeeder is scoring or not.

Hellfury's list above is pretty strong, but basically you need to look at what kind of list you want. If you want terminators DS'ing in your opponents face then use Hellfury's list above. If you want super-fast bikes backed up by Terminators then switch the ratio and use Sammael to make the bikes scoring. If you want more of a combined approach. Use Hellfury's list but drop two Deathwing squads (or one DW and one RW) and add in a couple Landraiders.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I have changed my mind concerning how good sammy is. I think the added apothecary he can add greatly helps the list, especially since he makes bikes scoring.

I hate spending that much points on a model, but the benefits he adds greatly helps with the list.

I finally got around to using the list tonight and I have to say that sammy impressed me. But only because of the bonuses he adds to others around him.

Hellfury wrote:

I finally got around to using the list tonight and I have to say that sammy impressed me. But only because of the bonuses he adds to others around him.

So did you just add the apothecary? Or did you give someone the ravenwing banner as well? Can't beat and extra attack. Did you take him with Belial too?

Sammy is one of the best things in the DA list. An AV 14 Fast Skimmer with BS 5 twin-linked weapons. He is literally death to Orks and Tyranids.

And don't forget that DA apothecaries work on any unit within 6". It's a great feeling when an enemy finally kills a biker and you get to ignore it with the Apothecary! I believe (don't have the codex with me) that the rule even says "Failed Save" and not "Failed Armor Save" which would mean that it works with cover and invulnerable saves as well. Need to check on that one though.

Ozymandias, King of Kings