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Question for all the rules nuts that we've had come up at the shop. I was pretty sure it wasn't allowed (or at the very least intended) by power of the machine spirit, however I just want to check the legality of it to see if maybe I missed something that actually does make it illegal.

Situation:

My land raider is sitting still, not moving.

Therefore, I can fire all of my weapons.

Power of the machine spirit states:

"A land raider can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

Therefore, A land raider that was moved at combat speed can fire two weapons, and a land raider that has either moved at cruising speed, or has suffered a "crew stunned" or "crew shaken" result care fire a single weapon"

Since I can fire "one more weapon than would normally be permitted" and I'm permitted to fire everything, I'll fire off one of my lascannon sponsons twice.

This seems to imply its only meant to allow you to fire up to 2 times. However, the way its worded I can see it being legal to double fire a lascannon.

Comments?

Each weapon can only fire once

While you can fire one more weapoin than normally allowed, this does not let you fire the same weapon again

one more weapon /= s,me weapon twice

Although I agree, where does it say this?

I need an actual rulebook page if its to be a real ruling or illegality, as it reads now, unless it says "each weapon can fire only once" in the rulebook, it is "technically" legal I'd say.

A weapon can fire as many times as it's description says.
If it is a Heavy 1 weapon that weapon can never fire more than one shot per shooting phase.

As the vehicle can already fire all its weapons the extra allowed shot doesn't matter as it has nothing left to shoot with.
POTMS can still be used to shoot at a different target though.

But where does it say that in the rulebook?

Maybe an apt non 40k analogy would be:

You have two friends to take to the park. You can take an additional friend. You can't take the same friend twice obviously, as that would make no sense.

Hrm, still not totally convinced I have a rock solid rules argument, but its closer.

page 27.

Ask him why a normal trooper can't shoot twice with a lascannon. The answer is the same for a land raider.

That states (essentially) that a heavy 2 weapon fires two shots when fired in the shooting phase.

I imagine he'd reply "because the trooper doesn't have a rule allowing him to fire an additional weapon, while the land raider does".

However, additional seems to imply DIFFERENT as well as ANOTHER, and because of this, I'm of the same mind, you can't just choose to double down on a gun thats already been fired.

Did you bring this up during the game?
If so, did everyone look at you like you just grew a third eye?

I think the operative word in the rules being used/quote is normally

You couldnt ever normally be permitted to fire a weapon twice.

It doesn't matter if it's state in the rulebook or not. It's started in the grammar of the rule.

targetawg wrote:"A land raider can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

"Can fire one more weapon" does not mean "Can fire once more".

It's really quite simple: There is no rule allowing the land raider to fire any of its weapons twice.

He can try to argue that it's allowed to fire three weapons normally, so POTMS lets him fire four weapons, but that reasoning will fail the moment he tries to find a fourth weapon to fire, for the very simple reason stated before: There is no rule allowing the land raider to fire any of its weapons twice.

The same sort of logic would apply if the land raider suffers weapon destroyed results. Nothing in POTMS allows the land raider to fire a destroyed weapon. Further, if all of the land raiders weapons are destroyed there simply would be no weapon eligible to be fired by POTMS, so the land raider doesn't get to fire.

All firing from a single unit is done simultaneously, even if it may potentially be aimed at another unit, the machine spirit may be good but I doubt good enough to make a single weapon fire two shots simultaneously.

Zip Napalm wrote:Did you bring this up during the game?
If so, did everyone look at you like you just grew a third eye?

Read the post.


As I said, we've had players at the shop using this recently in friendly games and in a tournament, and I wanted to check the legality on it as both sides of the argument here are sure they're right.

I play eldar. This isn't me using the rule. My falcons don't have POTMS.

Thanks for the helpful rules-relevant responses folks, this pretty much confirmed my thinking on the ruling, time to bring it to the masses.

Apologies targetawg.

The "My land raider is sitting still, not moving." threw me off.

This question is a lot like the one about bikes charging twelve inches. We have never played it this way but anything can be questioned here in YMTDC.

G

Chaos Dreadnoughts are one example of a unit which can fire the same weapon more than once during the shooting phase. Perhaps looking at the wording of the rules in Codex:CSM would shed some light on this?