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So, I know that you don't get a cover save vs. Flame templates, but I was wondering about cover saves vs. Blast templates.

According to one friend, you can get a cover save, but only if you're INSIDE difficult terrain.

you get a cover save from templates in the same way as a normal shot.

The only difference is when you have a barrage weapon (GXX" Range) When firing indirectly, in that instance cover is take from the direction of the central hole.

Clthomps wrote:you get a cover save from templates in the same way as a normal shot.

The only difference is when you have a barrage weapon (GXX" Range) When firing indirectly, in that instance cover is take from the direction of the central hole.

okay, cool...Do you remember where in the Rules that it states this? I can't find anywhere that it talks about cover saves vs. Template weapons and my friend says you only get if it you're INSIDE the terrain, which means some cover saves, like being behind your own Units or behind Terrain (and probably KFF as well) won't grant you the cover save.

Also, I'm pretty certain you don't get a cover save for the Flame template, but I can't seem to find that either.

Check the section in the rulebook on wepon types...pg 27-32 I think.

1. cover saves?

The section on BLAST weapons does not say they ignore cover saves, hence you DO get a cover save against them.

The section on TEMPLATE weapons says that they ignore cover saves.

Blast weapons are not template weapons, unless they also have the Template special rule (even though you use a real-life template to represent the blast) and so you still get cover saves from Blast weapons.

2. direction?

The section on BLAST weapons says you take cover saves based on the direction of the firer.

The section on BARRAGE weapons says you take cover saves based on the direction of the centre of the template. This is only really relevant when half your models are standing behind a wall or something. e.g. if a squad in a jungle are hit by a barrage weapon, and the centre of the template is also over the jungle, then the squad get their cover save, as there MUST be some elements of jungle inbetween the dead centre of the template and the bases of the models. The exception if if there is a model under the dead centre of the template, who does not get a cover save...

Phew...

the rules for flamers are under the "Templates" header and the weapon types section.
it specifically says these remove cover saves.

the rules for "blast" templates do not add that little caveat so therefore you would use the normal shooting rules and get a cover save.

I think the confusion is that there are three templates, only one of which, the tear-drop one, are Templates in the game's terminology. Blast weapons don't use templates, they use the large and the small Blast markers.

Also remember that with Blast weapons if you are firing at a unit in say a building or ruins that is spread over multiple floors you must designate which floor you are firing at, and only hit those units on that floor.

So if lets say you have 3 on the top floor and 6 on the bottom floor and shoot at the top floor, then blast deviates say 4 inches and is then not covering models on the top floor but is covering models on the bottom floor, then you will not hit anything.

Lets also say on that same scenerio that you have the same unit in the same place, and you role a "hit" on the scatter, and say wound and kill 2 guys. Then you can still remove any models in the unit (first or second floor) as you control which models take the wounds.

(this is under the Ruins and blast markers section of the rulebook).

The thing to look for to see if it will Ignore cover is 1st the Range. It will say "Template" or give you a number. If it says template then it will ignore cover, ALL TYPES. So just because that squad of scouts are in that crater with their fancy Cammo clokes giving them 3+ cover vs a Template, there down to just armor. Area or just partial covering of model does not matter. As far as blast weapons it will say something like Heavy 1 Large Blast, This they still receive all normal cover unless the weapon has a rule that will allow it to ignore cover. If the Range is preceded by a G like G36" Heavy 2 blast, then it will be resolved as a barrage weapon and the cover will be checked not form the firer but rather from the direction of the center hole on the blast marker. as a side note it helps in many games to refer to the blast circle as the "blast marker" and not a template to reduce confusion with the Flamer kind of Template. One last thing to note is that if The blast is resolved as a Barrage it must also keep in mind that it will hit the top most level that the circle would come into contact will come into contact with. If the squad that you wish to shoot at is under a some ruins then the barrage will simply hit the top level and have no effect on the lower squad. The Also if a normal non-barrage Weapon is targeted at a squad on one level of a ruin and it would then scatter off them over a different level then nothing happens even if that 2nd lvl would be lower, you aim at he level that you want to hit. when firing a Template weapon you may select to shoot at one lvl above you, your lvl, or one below .
This now concludes an overview of blast/template/Barrage weapons

The REAL confusion is that Template weapons use the template, Blast weapons use a MARKER.