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I'm considering starting a Daemon army, and I just want to make sure I've getting the rules right.. on the first turn, I can deep strike the first wave all at once, scattering each unit individually correct? Or do the models coming in first turn require individual rolls per unit of 3+? I know icons take no effect this round..

Once half my models are on the table, from then on each individual unit will come in as per the normal deep strike rules. The whole army does not come in at once on a successful 4+ roll on turn 2. Each unit in the second wave must successfully come in on their own reserve roll.

What is the range on breath of chaos?

And also, for Fateweaver it says that his Oracle of Eternity rule lets me re-roll saves at the price of taking LD tests, but any failed test result in him fleeing and dying. Does he die when he reaches my table edge or does he die right there? Does he have a chance to rally at all?

Also, it seems GW has no Errata/FAQ on this army.. anyone happen to know where I might find something akin to it? Or just more info on the army itself.

Thanks!

on the first turn, I can deep strike the first wave all at once, scattering each unit individually correct? Or do the models coming in first turn require individual rolls per unit of 3+? I know icons take no effect this round..

I think you might be mixing things up a bit so lets break it down.
-Declare during deployment whether any ICs are attached to a unit
-Start of your first turn -- divide the army in half by unit into two groups. Units with an IC attached count as one unit in this case.
-Select one group as your 'daemonic assault' eg. the group you want to arrive first turn.
-Roll a D6 and on a 3-6 this is the group that is deployed first turn. If 1-2, then it is the other group that arrives first turn.
-Which ever half was chosen bythe gods is deployed first turn using the deepstrike rules for deployment (so place one model from the unit, roll scatter, place the rest of the unit, etc).

Each unit in the second wave must successfully come in on their own reserve roll.

Yes. They are essentially deepstriking per the normal rules at that point and arrive from reserves as normal.

Example
Lets say I have the following army
Herald of Khorne
Herald of Khorne
Bloodthrister

Bloodletter unit A
Bloodletter unit B
Plaguebearer unit A
Plaguebearer unit B

Soulgrinder A
Soulgrinder B

-During deployment I declare each herald is attached to a seperate bloodletter unit. That means I have 7 units
-Top of my first turn I select the following 4 units as my preferred daemonic assault:
Bloodthirster
Soulgrinder A
Soulgrinder B
Bloodletter A (w/ Herald attached)

The other 3 units are my preferred 2nd wave.

If I roll 3-6 then all goes to plan, 1-2 its the other 3 units. Lets say I roll a 1.

Now my first turn I deploy the two plaguebearers and the bloodletter B per the rules for deepstrike (place a model from the unit, roll scatter, determine possible mishap, move to the next till all are deployed). The rest must roll for reserves and deepstrike as normal.

What is the range on breath of chaos?

Breath of chaos is a template weapon. aka use the flamer template per the rules in the BGB.

And also, for Fateweaver it says that his Oracle of Eternity rule lets me re-roll saves at the price of taking LD tests, but any failed test result in him fleeing and dying. Does he die when he reaches my table edge or does he die right there? Does he have a chance to rally at all?

The wording used in his Oracle rule is 'fleeing', which is more of a fluff statement. You are confusing this with 'fall back', which is un-related. He is Fearless and will not fall back (ironically enough).

However he must make a Leadership test for every unsaved wound he takes and he is removed from the board if he fails. Poof. He flees using his powers or whatever. Game purposes he is destroyed/killed.

Also, it seems GW has no Errata/FAQ on this army.. anyone happen to know where I might find something akin to it? Or just more info on the army itself.

There is no official FAQ asfar as I know. There's an independently created FAQ being used at adepticon. That is a good start to see what issues are known to the community. But it is not official.

HTH

Ah I got it now. It's a little vague on what happens to the first group, so I wasn't sure if the first wave all deployed at once.

That kind of sucks about Fateweaver just up and disappearing like that. Ld 9 or not, there would be a lot of Ld tests to make if you are shooting to negate enough wounds. Losing that many points off a failed leadership might be a bit much for me to handle... if only iron hide gave 2+ saves =P

I'll have to look around for that unofficial FAQ then to see what I can find. Things like that, although unofficial, are still good heads up in case situations come up at a table.

Thanks for the info!

breadhat wrote:I'm considering starting a Daemon army, and I just want to make sure I've getting the rules right.. on the first turn, I can deep strike the first wave all at once, scattering each unit individually correct? Or do the models coming in first turn require individual rolls per unit of 3+? I know icons take no effect this round..

Yes, the first wave comes in an the beginning of your movement phase, deep striking (so place the first unit, scatter it, place the second unit, scatter it, etc.) Note that you technically don't pick your primary block until your first turn...so you can wait to see how your opponent deploys before dividing your force.

breadhat wrote:
Once half my models are on the table, from then on each individual unit will come in as per the normal deep strike rules. The whole army does not come in at once on a successful 4+ roll on turn 2. Each unit in the second wave must successfully come in on their own reserve roll.

Correct. Everything that didn't come in on turn 1 is in reserve, and you roll for them as normal.

breadhat wrote:What is the range on breath of chaos?

It's a template weapon. Place the narrow end touching the model shooting it.

breadhat wrote:And also, for Fateweaver it says that his Oracle of Eternity rule lets me re-roll saves at the price of taking LD tests, but any failed test result in him fleeing and dying. Does he die when he reaches my table edge or does he die right there? Does he have a chance to rally at all?

Winterman is correct...fateweaver is fearless. He does take a LD test whenever he is wounded, and is removed if he fails the test. Note that fateweaver only takes LD tests when HE personally fails a save. If another unit is using his re-roll and fails a save, Fateweaver doesn't test.

Oh so Fateweaver allows me to reroll saves (assuming once) and the only time he checks leadership is when he himself fails a save for his own wounds. I'm assuming he's allowed an attempt to reroll as well?

Wow that's some serious insanity there.. hopefully the Daemon codex doesn't see tables enough at my FLGS for people to realize that they should be killing Fateweaver...

breadhat wrote:Oh so Fateweaver allows me to reroll saves (assuming once) and the only time he checks leadership is when he himself fails a save for his own wounds. I'm assuming he's allowed an attempt to reroll as well?

Wow that's some serious insanity there.. hopefully the Daemon codex doesn't see tables enough at my FLGS for people to realize that they should be killing Fateweaver...

That's exactly how it works. (You can never re-roll a re-roll, btw). He re-rolls his own saves, so he has a 3++ save that he re-rolls. Of course, he's only T5, and LD9, and can't hide in a unit, so if your opponent wants to shoot at it, he pretty much can.

Yea, that is a downer for the Daemon army in general that you can't hide any of the HQ's in units. I guess I'll be challenging most others by way of base to base contact.

breadhat wrote:Yea, that is a downer for the Daemon army in general that you can't hide any of the HQ's in units. I guess I'll be challenging most others by way of base to base contact.

Not quite true. Heralds, with the exception of the Masque, can join squads of Daemons with the same god.

Ah that's true. For Heralds I have to give them Chariots first, but honestly, why wouldn't you right? =)

Actually, giving heralds chariots strips them of IC status.

Right, but if you join the Herald to say a unit of Bloodletters, and then upgrade to the chariot. Wouldn't that in a way lock the chariot into the unit? Or is that just illegal in general?

I guess I'm thinking of it as an upgrade instead of an HQ choice. My understanding of the chariot was that it drops the IC status in order to join units, which would be awesome.

Edit: I dont quite see the benefit of having a chariot lose IC status just so it can wander around on it's own and still get targeted.

breadhat wrote:Right, but if you join the Herald to say a unit of Bloodletters, and then upgrade to the chariot. Wouldn't that in a way lock the chariot into the unit? Or is that just illegal in general?

I guess I'm thinking of it as an upgrade instead of an HQ choice. My understanding of the chariot was that it drops the IC status in order to join units, which would be awesome.

Edit: I dont quite see the benefit of having a chariot lose IC status just so it can wander around on it's own and still get targeted.

No, once you take a chariot the model can no longer join a unit as it is no longer an IC.

The reason to take a chariot is because it give the character some advantages (typically more speed and a whole lot more wounds) at the price of no longer being able to hide in a unit all at a pretty cheap points cost.


Whether those advantages are worth the disadvantage is something you're going to have to decide on your own.

IMHO, it is generally totally worth it. Chariots are so amazingly cheap for the amount of extra wounds they provide that the lack of extra protection is worth the risk.

Do chariots count as cavalry then? You mentioned that they are faster, but I don't see anything stating a change in the unit type. It would really make more sense that way, but typically people like to go on RAW. I already have ideas for making said chariot, but before I do I wanna know that I'm playing it right.

breadhat wrote:Do chariots count as cavalry then? You mentioned that they are faster, but I don't see anything stating a change in the unit type. It would really make more sense that way, but typically people like to go on RAW. I already have ideas for making said chariot, but before I do I wanna know that I'm playing it right.

Check the individual chariots again; they have different rules. (For example, the Tzeentch chariot moves like a Jetbike.)

All it really says in the description is that the Herald rides into battle on a great war-chariot. It is also pulled by the Juggernaut, a Daemonic Steed and grants stat line bonuses.

On p.54 of the AOBR rulebook, under Beasts and Cavalry it mentions daemonic steeds counting as cavalry when a rider is present. I guess technically that could put things to rest, but it feels a little like it's a weak connection. Why wouldn't they just clearly state that it counts as cavalry? Just feels like a bit of a stretch to count it just because they both mention Daemonic Steeds..

Edit: On further inspection, the only one that doesn't mention a change in type is Khorne. I suppose Juggernauts are too slow to begin with to be counted as cavalry while the others are mobile enough to grant additional movement capability.

Exactly.

Khornate chariots just give two additional wounds (at an amazingly cheap price...15 pts, for +2 wounds, +1 T, +1S and iron hide.

Slaanesh chariots move as cavalry, and get a 4+ armor save along with the extra wounds. Maybe something else...the only Slaanesh I've ever used were DPs.

Tzeentch chariots move as jetbikes, get extra wounds and other statline bonuses, and get furious charge.

Nurgle doesn't have chariots.

Centurian99 wrote:
Khornate chariots just give two additional wounds (at an amazingly cheap price...15 pts, for +2 wounds, +1 T, +1S and iron hide.

Cheap in points, maybe, but it can be an horribly expensive figure to build (Juggernaught, chariot parts, a herald, bases, ...). That, and they probably win the prize for biggest single figure still able to climb ruins.

i dunno why daemon players dont like chariots. i have been having great success with them lately. IC status for heralds is overrated.

I'm currently building a Tzeentch chariot

WoC Tzeentch Lord on disc = £15
Box of screamers = £20, with chain to link the two...

and idealy i wanted the classic "faceless" tzeentch sorceror, which was another £8

So around £35 for one model, but it's still cool. All mounted on a chariot base, with one screamer "flying high" so they can be staggered - side by side you would need a 75mm frontage, which is even more massive.

However, Khorante chariot could be more horrific - skulltaker and two juggers is very expensive....and you still need a chariot, so prob either WoC chariot or HE one.

i used a box of grey knights (45$) but these consists of the 4 chariots im gona make. 2 screamers (20$ i think) 2 Old school slaaneshi mounts (20$ too i guess) and 2 Cold one knights for the mounts (20$) or probably less. all it all its 105$(retail) for 4 chariots plus extra bits.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So around £35 for one model, but it's still cool. All mounted on a chariot base, with one screamer "flying high" so they can be staggered - side by side you would need a 75mm frontage, which is even more massive.

Side by side screamers should work nicely.

I was admiring your thread just yesterday on speed painting, Centurian. The army really looks amazing I have to say. Its definitely inspiring me further on with mine and at the same time, makes me think twice about Tzeentch units.
Did your list in Chigago GT work out the way you thought or are there any modifications you might do now in hindsight?

nosferatu1001 wrote: However, Khorante chariot could be more horrific - skulltaker and two juggers is very expensive....and you still need a chariot, so prob either WoC chariot or HE one.

What I was thinking to do for my Khorne chariot was to use a VC corpse cart and convert that using the Herald on a Juggernaut model that you special order from GW. I was at the shop talking with a blackshirt about it and from the looks of it the conversion shouldn't be too tough. just have to make some kind of realistic way to harness the Juggernaut to the cart. Also, in the description, the Khorne chariot seems to be pulled by a single Juggernaut so space should be no problem.