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Making this for a possible ard boyz list to play against a friend who's obbsesed with ard boyz. Then I though how would I get this into a more normal size game? And started thinking about the problems about 1 big crusher unit 10 minutes later I come up with this.

Kairos Fate weaver 333 (considering swapping for 2 GUO's or 4 heralds)

8 Crushers- icon 345

8 crushers- icon 345

5 horrors- bolt 95

5 horrors- bolt 95

8 bloodletters 128

8 bloodletters 128

14 plaugebearers 210

soulgrinder- phlegm 160

soulgrinder- phlegm 160

1999

For an actual ard boyz tournament I would add 1 grinder 1 unit of horrors and beef them all up to 6 and add 2 heralds of tzeench on charriots with bolt and breath.

I really like it!


My only tweaks would be to drop phlegm on both grinders and add musicians and renders to the crushers. gives you a little more 'nob-bikerness' and a chance to break off of armor 12 walkers.

I don't know enough about ard boys to know how much troop is needed, but could it be possible to drop a troop unit for a 3rd naked grinder? I'm looking at one of those bloodletter units.

Nevertheless, hardcore list there Yermom...



And now I see that you still have 500 to spend... your adds sound spot on... I like gaze and bolt on tzeentch chariots, but I'm thinking maybe tzeentch heralds come with gaze? I don't have the book in front of me.

Thanks Shep!

Do you really feel that musicans and rending would be useful? I understand why you would take them but, Phlegm is always useful especially againts horde and nob bikers. I guess it also depends on wether or not you play in an area that lets them shoot the turn they deep strike.

Troops in ard boys are just as important in any other large battle IMO but, if you saw my additions list I already added a third grinder.

Thanks and let me know if you really think that the wound allocation is worth it.

add musicians and rends. as that way it plays with wound allocation a bit
may save a crusher or 2 at some point, just remember to keep kairos away from any heavy or mass fire weps.

yermom wrote: Do you really feel that musicans and rending would be useful?

I do.

yermom wrote:Phlegm is always useful especially againts horde and nob bikers.

I totally agree.

yermom wrote:I guess it also depends on wether or not you play in an area that lets them shoot the turn they deep strike.

Walkers can always shoot two weapons. Moving 12" wouldn't affect that... I'd fight pretty passionately against someone trying to tell me my soul grinder just went "cruising speed"

yermom wrote:Troops in ard boys are just as important in any other large battle IMO but, if you saw my additions list I already added a third grinder.

I saw that after I had already put some thoughts down. As a 2k list, i think you should for sure have the two crushers and the three grinders. Heck every 1750 I run has those units (although not two huge crusher units). But as a 2k block to an unfinished 2500 army, it is awesome. And the tzeentch chariots and last grinder would round out the unit structure perfectly.

yermom wrote:Thanks and let me know if you really think that the wound allocation is worth it.

You are welcome. Sometimes the really tuned lists don't get as much feedback on this forum because either someone sees it and says 'oh he's got it under control' or they just really don't have anything useful to add... My suggestions are more to lather up a final tweaked list. If you stuck with phlegm or did some other little things that weren't my preference I'd still call it hard core and tuned.

It's not so much that the wound allocation is worth it... I think it'd be worth the points... but I rather like what you get for the points. Keeping in mind the wound bags, the musician will come up in a couple spots. Two units that come to mind right away that you'd likely tie are assault terminators and dreadnoughts (if you have rending). It's a dirt cheap upgrade that will trigger a free glancing hit on a walker every so often, and will put a leadership test onto some termies every so often. Which is in addition to the wound spreadage... The rend is pricey, and not reliable, but when the circumstances of a game create a situation where you have been outmaneuvered, or you need to improvise, then the ability to penetrate armor 11 and 12 is handy. Probably not so handy to stand on its own, but a worthy choice with extra survivability the upgrade affords.

As to my contradictory agreement on phlegm being good. Well, they are both good. I just think that a more geeked out bloodcrusher unit is better than battlecannon shells, in the context of the rest of your list. Especially at 2500 when you've added in some significant ap3 tzeentch shooting.

Don't fear nob bikers... but certainly perfect your swamp counters... This list wrecks nobs if both lists are played very well. You just need to get grinders and crushers into CC all at the same time. It gets really over if you out-general the ork player. If you can pin power klaws up against crushers, and then stick grinders on the unit, you'll have a lot of time to relax before your next game. You won't need pie.

Thanks Shep i'll try to find points to get the crushers tooled out but, I don't want to weaken my grinders so, i'll probably drop the additional horror from every unit making 3 units of 5 instead of 3 units of 6.

Have you any expierience with dual lash and daemons? It never really comes up in my other games since when I play my nids I put up a gaunt wall around my fex's so they can't go anywhere unless he lashes the gaunts first and, my marines are all mech. I'm worried that they'll just lash my crushers away all game and my shooting isn't powerful enough to stop them. Is my best bet just to engage them with the heralds or kairos none of which can stand up in a fight against them to let my crushers get there? (Maybe Kairos can...Maybe)

2 units of 8 blood crushers.... not only are you looking at $400... but 2 units with GIGANTIC footprints.... they are 12inch footprints for DSing... thats way to big to risk... 2 units of 4, every model armed differently is good enough or 3 units of 4 every model armed differently...

Phlegm is totally worth it on your grinders... don't lose it.

Split the plaguebearers to 2 units of 7 no icon since you have 3 icons already if all the crushers are armed differently

Kiros is good... but I like 2 GUO's better.

yermom wrote:Thanks Shep i'll try to find points to get the crushers tooled out but, I don't want to weaken my grinders so, i'll probably drop the additional horror from every unit making 3 units of 5 instead of 3 units of 6.

Have you any expierience with dual lash and daemons? It never really comes up in my other games since when I play my nids I put up a gaunt wall around my fex's so they can't go anywhere unless he lashes the gaunts first and, my marines are all mech. I'm worried that they'll just lash my crushers away all game and my shooting isn't powerful enough to stop them. Is my best bet just to engage them with the heralds or kairos none of which can stand up in a fight against them to let my crushers get there? (Maybe Kairos can...Maybe)

Sadly, I haven't seen the chaos civil war yet... So I can't assist there. I would hope that kairos and some chariots could drop an exposed lash prince. But your initial crushers will be moved 4d6"... and that probably sucks. Both Centurian99 and Warmaster have tons of experience with their demon armies, and I'm sure both have vs. lash. I rmember Cent writing something in apost recently about lash dfense, I suggest a search.

frgsinwntr wrote:2 units of 8 blood crushers.... not only are you looking at $400... but 2 units with GIGANTIC footprints.... they are 12inch footprints for DSing... thats way to big to risk... 2 units of 4, every model armed differently is good enough or 3 units of 4 every model armed differently...

Phlegm is totally worth it on your grinders... don't lose it.

Split the plaguebearers to 2 units of 7 no icon since you have 3 icons already if all the crushers are armed differently

Kiros is good... but I like 2 GUO's better.

I don't think both crusher units come in wave 1. That means as long as the crushers are the first thing he drops in wave 1, he won't have any friendly models to mishap on... Once they've safely landed the diamater of 8 bloodcrushers plus a run move gives them a freakishly large threat bubble. The other crusher unit should be coming in off of an icon so it shouldn't have a problem. As for the money... what better way to spend it?

I will concede that your 4 man units are also good. I use them and advocate using them that way a lot.

phlegm is good, but when points are an issue, it isn't better than bodies. Please cite the units that you use phlegm on that would be trouble for you if you didn't have it...

Your advice on splitting the plaguebearers is sound... but up for debate.. I think it comes down to preference, I prefer to have one unit for the 2x annihilation games you play at every GT. The horrors hurt you enough as it is.

I like 2 GUOs a lot as well. Some armies can't get through a screened kairos/bloodcrusher combo, some can drop kairos quick. The ones that can't drop him make him look like the most broken 40k combo of all time. But on all those games where he dies, the 2 GUOs are much better.


Some good advice here from Frogs... But I think you can start getting some games in with what you got now before you try out these alts.

If I take 2 GUO's then I can't take any heralds...

How do you figur 12" foot print Frgsnwntr? This is how I see it 1 guy in the middle,6 guys BTB with him and 1 guy giving me an extra base anywhere on the edeg of that ring. 6" diameter + my choice of where an extra 3" base goes. But I do see wy 4 man cruaher units are good to.

Why would I split the plaugebearers, other thanmore OBJ mobility I can't think of 1 reason?

Thanks Shep i'll look into centurians and warmasters games.

you need rending, cuz if a dread assaults them, they're pretty much sitting ducks

just a very random idea, but your taking 2 units of 8.
and your thinking about splitting kairos into 4 heralds?

this could be amusing:

6 blood crushers, herald on jugger, skulltaker on jugger (with some upgrades all round)

5 blood crushers, herald on jugger (with some upgrades all round)

5 blood crushers, herald on jugger (with some upgrades all round)

this way you have 3 solid units, hard to kill, and hit stupidly hard.
against a nidzilla list you draw out a fex from synapse range, then use skull taker to kill it easily.
(if he fails to kill it im sure the herald or 6 other crushers will do)

thinking about it, with thier WS, S and A mixed with being power weps, im pretty sure they will kill anything, no matter what save or T it has.

also, in having 3 seperate units all with heralds it means a lash wont be so dezistating, how can that stop 3 units?

also, with such variation in the units it can be used to play with wound allocation, meaning dodging the bullets a few times.

not only all this, but the look on your opponants face would be priceless when he sees that charging towards him