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Here goes nothing... maybe it'll do decently. I think it has the tools to do what it needs to do, if it can get things in the right place at the right time.

Shas'el, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, twin-linked missile pods, HW-Target Lock, HW-Drone Controller, Stimm Injector, Shield Drone, Gun Drone

2x Crisis Suits, missile pod, plasma rifle, multitracker
2x Crisis Suits, missile pod, plasma rifle, multitracker
5 Stealth suits

6 Fire Warriors
Devilfish, disruption pods, SMS, multi-tracker, targeting array
6 Fire Warriors
6 Fire Warriors

6 Pathfinders
Devilfish, disruption pods, SMS, multi-tracker, targeting array
6 Pathfinders
Devilfish, disruption pods, SMS, multi-tracker, targeting array

2 Broadsides, Advanced Stabilization, Team Leader with HW-Drone Controller, 2 shield drones
Hammerhead, railgun, burst cannons, disruption pods, multi-tracker, target lock
Hammerhead, railgun, burst cannons, disruption pods, multi-tracker, target lock

From memory, but it comes to 1750 on the dot. The fire warriors hop in the pathfinder's devilfish and hold tight until turns 4-5, when they move out and try to claim objectives. The Broadsides take on tanks, usually supported by the Hammerheads unless facing hordes. The Commander will likely hide either with the Broadsides or a Crisis unit, plinking away at light vehicles until the enemy gets close, when he pops out and uses his AFP. The Crisis will do what they do best, taking on tough targets that get to close and hiding in/behind cover as much as possible. The stealths can either support with firepower where needed, or outflank and surprise the opponent, possibly making him respond to protect his objectives. Normally stealths aren't really used too much, I think, but this army lacks the S5 firepower that is the Tau hallmark, and I think it'd be needed against some of the lists out there.

It clocks in at 15 KP, which is a little on the high side for a mech army but not too badly (I consider 12-14 to be average). It will probably lose against a lot of the strongest lists out there, but has the tools to get the job done in RTTs, for instance. Your thoughts?

I see your strategy. I don't have enough play experience in 5th ed tournaments to know if you'll be able to do the jump shoot jump and find terrain that blocks los. If that does work, I'd go with 3 units of 2 crisis suits, and use the remaining points to upgrade the shas'el with 2 shield drones and iridium armor. then you can have it join a crisis team and sit out in the open if you had to, with a 2+ armor save, and stimulant injector, and use the shield drones for the ap2 instakill shots that might come your way.

I think you should get rid of the Gun Drone and the Stimm Injector, use those points to get some flechett launchers for a couple of tanks. Or Better I would get some bonding and Shield drones for the Crisis suits.

I want flechettes, but points are tight! Maybe dropping those upgrades you suggest, and a pathfinder from each squad might do it. Problem with the drones on crisis is that it gets expensive - 25 points per unit, for one shield drone, 30 for two gun drones. That starts eating into my stealth suit points.

I don't like Iridium armor on the commander. Sure, it gives him a 2+ save, but it reduces his movement far too much in my opinion. Plus it's expensive!

I think you can replace the broadside's shield drones with gun drones...I find it hard to believe they won't be in cover 90% of the time. But YMMV

I think the crisis suits without gun drones are going to die a horrible death to heavy weapons. I pretty much never find anywhere to hide them, even with 4 of my own tanks on the board...either they can see an arm or leg, or they put a pie plate on the back of the tank and hit a suit too. I'd give at least one of the two squads two gun drones, and then join the Shas'el to the other.

It should only be 25 points for two gun drones or 20 for one shield drone (5 points for team leader upgrade, 0 for HW drone controller, 10 or 15 per drone). Maybe you're adding in the 5 points for bonding too.

Three devilfish seems like too much of a points sink to me. Not sure you really need to move three squads of fire warriors (at least one of the points should be in your deployment zone). If you're worried about that last squad being shot up early maybe give it a Shas'el and start it in reserve. The 120 points for one less DF would give you all the points and more you need to upgrade other squads.

Indeed I was adding in the points for bonding. And the devilfish aren't there to move 3 squads around, it's to keep them safe. Fire Warriors outside of devilfish tend to die horrible deaths. They also give opponents targets to shoot at. Plus the Devilfish throw out some decent firepower for what they are, and add to target saturation. I'd think about taking one out, but I'd definitely have to play test it first.

lambadomy wrote:I think you can replace the broadside's shield drones with gun drones...I find it hard to believe they won't be in cover 90% of the time. But YMMV

It's also the 2+ save and T4.

I wish I had something for you Tzeentchling... Tau are just enigmatic for me. I haven't seen anyone get suits and markerlights to work yet, but it looks so good on paper. And I think there is something in there. I just haven't seen it.

The only tau list that I'd be comfortable running in a competitive setting is a lot different than this one, and not worth comparing. The construction of the list and the synergies are all there in your list... use those devilfish to block enemy objectives. Don't be afraid to keep gun drones on the fish. A lot of people gripe about their KP inefficiency (and rightly so) but often times, the other side of the coin gets forgotten. In those last minute blocks on turns 5 and 6, sometimes the lil' bastards saturate the enemy targets, and end up being the blocker that lives. During KP games, if the KP totals look tight... detach the drones and hide them out of range and LOS all game. You lose some shooting, but the extra objective blockers are worth that trade off n the majority of the missions.

You gonna be getting any games with this thing soon? I'd really like to hear about those markerlights and the suits. Could you find points to give the stealth team networked markerdrones and the team leader a markerlight? that gives them something to do in the early stages of the game.

Probably not going to be playing with these guys for a while, at least not tournament. Using my Iron Hands list for the upcoming GenghisCon here in Denver, then next tournament is ??? But my Tau are next on my list to build/paint/play. So far this is all theory.

If I make the Devilfish into just regular troop carriers, not Warfish, that might give me the points to upgrade not only to Flechettes but also help with the drones on the suits. That might be a consideration, at the cost of increasing the KP to 18 (ugh).

V's is going to be running 40K tourneys every other month starting around may. So maybe you can test them there?

I highly recommend not having Gun drones in any unit other than Gun Drone Squads. They lack the defensive stats that shield drones do, all they do is make it easier to get a panic check out of the suits!

You should definitely keep the fish as Warfish though, otherwise they are just 100pts of worthless trash that cant hurt anything and gives up 2 KP!

OK, just worked it out a bit. If I drop the Warfish upgrades and the Stimms, I can afford to give the crisis suits 2 shield drones each, add a shield drone in place of the gun drone to the commander, and give the Devilfish Flechettes. That might be more worth it. I know non-upgraded Devilfish won't be firing a lot, but those points are tough to find (+35 each!). I think it's a good compromise.

So the new list stands as:

Shas'el, TL-Missile Pods, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, HW-Target Lock, HW-Drone Controller, 2 shield drones - 123

2 Crisis Suits, missile pod, plasma rifle, multi-tracker, Team Leader with HW-Drone Controller, 2 shield drones, Bonding Knife - 164
2 Crisis Suits, missile pod, plasma rifle, multi-tracker, Team Leader with HW-Drone Controller, 2 shield drones, Bonding Knife - 164
5 Stealth Suits - 150

6 Fire Warriors - 60
Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger - 95
6 Fire Warriors - 60
6 Fire Warriors - 60

6 Pathfinders - 72
Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger - 95
6 Pathfinders - 72
Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger - 95

2 Broadsides, Advanced Stabilization System, Team Leader with HW-Drone Controller, 2 shield drones, Bonding Knife - 200
Hammerhead, Railgun, burst cannons, disruption pod, multi-tracker, target lock - 170
Hammerhead, Railgun, burst cannons, disruption pod, multi-tracker, target lock - 170

Total: 1750

Kroeger wrote:
You should definitely keep the fish as Warfish though, otherwise they are just 100pts of worthless trash that cant hurt anything and gives up 2 KP!

One more strength 5 hit when stationary, the loss of pinning tests, can't fire along with the burst cannon after a move without another 5 point upgrade and can't fire with the burst cannon even with the upgrade after a 12" move, and one less objective contesting unit for 20 points?

Perhaps you have your preference. But 'worthless trash' is a bit hyperbolic.

Shep wrote:
One more strength 5 hit when stationary, the loss of pinning tests, can't fire along with the burst cannon after a move without another 5 point upgrade and can't fire with the burst cannon even with the upgrade after a 12" move, and one less objective contesting unit for 20 points?

Perhaps you have your preference. But 'worthless trash' is a bit hyperbolic.

Maybe It was a bit hyperbolic...

but I still think the gun drones are a bad idea. Pinning really doesn't affect all that much with all the leadership bonuses out there, the drones hit only slightly more than half the time, The drones die easily when deployed, give up a KP in some games.

If you buy SMS you get to ignore LoS restrictions with 4 shots, Get further increased range, you don't give up a KP for free when destroyed and the Fish can hang back outside of 12" to get the most out of the Disruption pod! Seems like a much better deal to me.

Gotta go back and forth one more time...

I have seen gun drones off of devilfish win games. I just recently replied in another thread about them.

I had 2x combat squads and a rhino with a 3rd combat squad on a capture and control objective. I was being beaten cleanly on victory points but I had overran the tau players objective.

Bottom of turn 5 arrives and 2 devilfish fly up, debark their drones and debark their firewarriors.

I had enough missile launchers and meltaguns to handle the vehicles, and I was also able to initiate charges on two firewarrior units. But I was blocked anyway because my opponent saved 20 points per fish and took an additional unit. Incidentally, I failed a leadership 8 pin test. Which was about a 50/50 chance after having to take two.

I just wanted to add some anecdotal evidence to support my claim. You are absolutely right that the gun drones are a drag for kill points, but if you remember why kill points exists... it is to balance the high number of units is better in objective games fact. This means that if your army has a high KP total it is probably very good in objective missions. And since the SMS is hard to fire while staying on the move, costs 20 points, and since 2/3 of standard missions actually favor the gun drones... I think they are a good choice.

heres one of the most important thing's i have learned from tau, ALWAYS take bonding knives on your suits, no exceptions, your teams of 2 suits and 2 drones, you start shifting wounds onto the drones like theyre meant to do and they die, youre now at 50 percent STR, which is very bad. I took a tau commander, one suit, 2 drones recently, 2 lascannon shots later and a horrible ld roll and my hq went off board with no chance to regroup. suits are way too expensive and way too much of your firepower to risk not being able to regroup nearly every game i've played where at least one suit squad didnt have a bonding knife, i've lost that suit due to morale, even monats, you should pay the 10 points for a team leader and knife so you wont lose your 2 drones and be below 50%

Whoops, forgot to list the bonding knives there. The crisis suits and broadsides do have bonding knives. Nice catch RedFloyd! Note though that once the HQ drones die, he reverts to IC status and is not part of a unit anymore, thus he can rally, so no need for a BK there.