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Don't know if this has been covered but figured it was worth the asking.

Does the flechette option on Tau tanks apply in death or glory during tank shock?

If so, "Does it prevent the auto hit if the model is destroyed?


Your opinions pls


Edited last sentence

The tau codex states that a model "attacking the vehicle in close combat" can potentially suffer a wound from flechette dischargers.

While Death or Glory isn't specifically 'in' a close combat as the two units are never locked, I would consider it to satisfy the flechette discharger rules if you choose to make melee attacks for your Death or Glory.

The Tau codex then goes on to state that the attacking unit is wounded "before resolving its attacks" so on this point is quite clear that, assuming a unit making a melee Death or Glory can trigger flechette dischargers then if he suffered a wound from them which killed him his Death or Glory attack would automatically fail.

What if I decide to DOG your tank with the Lascannon from the devistator squad you're trying to tank shock?
or more appropriately from the plasma pistol rather than the power sword my tac sergant has?

I'm not going to bang on the front armor with the barrel, I'm going to shoot you.
It's an attack that automatically hits, it's not a close combat attack. You get the DOG hit, the flechettes don't go off.

(and you're never going to be locked in combat with a tau skimmer)

Kyvik wrote:What if I decide to DOG your tank with the Lascannon from the devistator squad you're trying to tank shock?
or more appropriately from the plasma pistol rather than the power sword my tac sergant has?

I'm not going to bang on the front armor with the barrel, I'm going to shoot you.
It's an attack that automatically hits, it's not a close combat attack. You get the DOG hit, the flechettes don't go off.

(and you're never going to be locked in combat with a tau skimmer)

Good point on the locking, since you can't lock with non walker vehicles I suppose the only way to reliably say you are "in close combat" with one is if you are making close combat attacks against it.

I suppose I wasn't clear enough as I didn't mention this distinction, but the Death or Glory rules quite specifically allow for you to opt whether you want to make a ranged or melee attack, obviously the ranged ones wouldn't apply to the flechette dischargers and as such I was only referring to the melee attacks. If you choose to use a melee weapon for the attack (or the models base Str characteristic) then the flechette dischargers will come in to play, but you are correct in that they would definitely have no effect on a model shooting the vehicle in a Death or Glory regardless of the ranged weapon's type.

Thanks guys, this is pretty much what my take on it was.
There are some who argue it's completely different because you hit automatically and therefore there was no assault or that the infantry has to assault and that the tank is technically the one assaulting.

Nope, the wording is pretty clear. The DoG is a CC attack, and that is what triggers the launchers.

I don't think it should work that way... but it does.

Coredump, where do you read that?
No where does it state that in the wording of the rule:

The attack may be either shot from a weapon carried by the model or a single close combat attack using any weapon carried including grenades.

Delete this if it's violating rules

No violation, this forum is about discussing the rules. It is perfectly acceptable to question source as long as you don't get insulting about it.

no. flachetts discharge on the enemy's turn not urs. and since ur talking about death or glory you must have tank shocked them so that means its ur turn

The Angry Commissar wrote:No. Flechettes discharge on the enemy's turn not yours, and since you are talking about Death or Glory, then you must have Tank Shocked them. So that means it's your turn.

There, fixed that for you.

focusedfire wrote:No violation, this forum is about discussing the rules. It is perfectly acceptable to question source as long as you don't get insulting about it.

Sorry, I ment to focus that on the rule part of my post. It's a direct quote from the rule book.

In short, you choose whether you use a close combat weapon or a ranged weapon, then you go against front armor to determine whether you penetrate.

It says you make a "close combat attack", so the flechettes would activate against a PK or PF attack, but not a lascannon shot I would say

I have a few questions for clarification:

1. Do flechette launchers state their initiative order? As in, before models attack, Initiative 4, anything like that.

2. Do flechette launchers specify which models they hit?

As I remember they go off before you attack, in which case they could theoretically kill the model before it hits with its DoG attack.

However, I don't recall them ever singling a model out, so the opposing player could simply allocate to different units.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It says you make a "close combat attack", so the flechettes would activate against a PK or PF attack, but not a lascannon shot I would say

As I posted before, the rulebook very specifically, and I am quoting directly here, states "The model nominated for this heroicc duty makes a single attack against the incoming tank. Even if the weapon used is assault 3 (there are no assault 3 cc weapons as that's a ranged modifier, not cc), for example, or the model is normally allowed more than one attack, can either be shot from a weapon carried by the model, or a single close combat attack using any weapon carried"

never says it must be a cc attack, with the exception of you chosing to make it a CC attack by using your PK / PF or other weapon of similar description.

So yes, if my dev or similar squad gets tank shocked by a Tau skimmer, you better believe that my first course of action is going to be blowing the cockpit out of the thing with my lascannon. The risk being, if I miss or don't stop the vehicle (4/5/6), the cannon dies. That's a 50/50 chance of losing the marine once you've penetrated the armor.

sourclams wrote:I have a few questions for clarification:

1. Do flechette launchers state their initiative order? As in, before models attack, Initiative 4, anything like that.

Drunkspleen wrote:The Tau codex then goes on to state that the attacking unit is wounded "before resolving its attacks" so on this point is quite clear that, assuming a unit making a melee Death or Glory can trigger flechette dischargers then if he suffered a wound from them which killed him his Death or Glory attack would automatically fail.

sourclams wrote:2. Do flechette launchers specify which models they hit?

"Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat will be wounded on a 4+" from the Flechette Discharger rules in the Tau Codex. So the wound is given to the attacking model directly rather than his unit, I believe this is specific enough.

The Angry Commissar wrote:no. flachetts discharge on the enemy's turn not urs. and since ur talking about death or glory you must have tank shocked them so that means its ur turn

There is absolutely no basis for this statement in the Flechette Discharger rules.

Kyvik wrote:The risk being, if I miss or don't stop the vehicle (4/5/6), the cannon dies. That's a 50/50 chance of losing the marine once you've penetrated the armor.

Just a quick note to ensure you aren't confused when a tank shock comes up in game although it's probably just an oversight, but a result of 2 on a penetrating hit, Crew Stunned, would also save the Death or Glorying model as the tank stops immediately.

Kyvik: I was not clear. Yes DoG can be shooting, and thus are not really part of this discussion. (Since Flechettes dont' trigger at all.)

When using DoG and not shooting, it is plainly stated that you are making a "Close Combat Attack". Flechette launchers says it triggers on any model that performs a close combat attack.

It affects the specific model that attacked is the one that gets wounded, and happens before it attacks.

So, if you get tank shocked you can DoG
IF you DoG with a ranged weapon, everything works as normal.
If you DoG with a CC weapon, the flechette launchers trigger. If the flechette launchers wound, and you fail the save. the model dies, and not DoG attack is possible.

Coredump - I'll go with that definition. The rules are pretty clear as to CC or Ranged.

Yeah Spleen, I wasn't thinking about that. Good point