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I'm starting a dwarf army for a league at my local FLGS. They are big into composition scores for league play and big into fluff--in short they f@#%ing hate powergamers, which is great in my opinion. So my question is this: is a dwarf gunline army (4 thunderer units and 2 warriors as core) with canons considered "cheese."?

With that attitude, why would you want to play with them?

If you don't take the anvil you should be good. Most people don't realize that this army can be beaten by not advancing until the last turn to grab some table quarter points.

as far as i know this is pretty much the only way to play dwarves. add in 4 cannons and a few more gun units and you have my 2000 point army list

Grab an Organ gun or 2.

Cheese is something that is judged differently by different gaming groups, so I do not think there is a true answer. Overall, as a dwarf player, I have found that unless you field 2 Organguns or Thorek with the Anvil you should not get too many complaints.

The reason multiple organ guns are considered cheesy or abusive lies with how it shoots. With the new lizardman army book, the organ gun is the last (I believe) remaining multi-shot unit that does not roll to hit. All opponents I face feel that 1 weapon liek this for Dwarves who are already "weakened" by low movement is understandable. When someone drops 2 into a list then I find people start to feel its abusive or cheesy.

As I do not play with an Anvil (yet), I am not entirely clear on why people feel Thorek is cheesy. I have found that most people are not as critical of just an Anvil, but are specifically critical of the Thorek+Anvil. This leads me to believe the opinions are based on his special character abilities.

Just some thoughts.

nix2825 wrote:

As I do not play with an Anvil (yet), I am not entirely clear on why people feel Thorek is cheesy. I have found that most people are not as critical of just an Anvil, but are specifically critical of the Thorek+Anvil. This leads me to believe the opinions are based on his special character abilities.

Yup - Thorek makes a regular Anvil so much better, it's frightening...

nix2825 wrote:Cheese is something that is judged differently by different gaming groups, so I do not think there is a true answer. Overall, as a dwarf player, I have found that unless you field 2 Organguns or Thorek with the Anvil you should not get too many complaints.

The reason multiple organ guns are considered cheesy or abusive lies with how it shoots. With the new lizardman army book, the organ gun is the last (I believe) remaining multi-shot unit that does not roll to hit. All opponents I face feel that 1 weapon liek this for Dwarves who are already "weakened" by low movement is understandable. When someone drops 2 into a list then I find people start to feel its abusive or cheesy.

As I do not play with an Anvil (yet), I am not entirely clear on why people feel Thorek is cheesy. I have found that most people are not as critical of just an Anvil, but are specifically critical of the Thorek+Anvil. This leads me to believe the opinions are based on his special character abilities.

Just some thoughts.

Ratling guns still auto-hit....and I never faced a non-Thorek anvil

Bat Manuel wrote:

nix2825 wrote:Cheese is something that is judged differently by different gaming groups, so I do not think there is a true answer. Overall, as a dwarf player, I have found that unless you field 2 Organguns or Thorek with the Anvil you should not get too many complaints.

The reason multiple organ guns are considered cheesy or abusive lies with how it shoots. With the new lizardman army book, the organ gun is the last (I believe) remaining multi-shot unit that does not roll to hit. All opponents I face feel that 1 weapon liek this for Dwarves who are already "weakened" by low movement is understandable. When someone drops 2 into a list then I find people start to feel its abusive or cheesy.

As I do not play with an Anvil (yet), I am not entirely clear on why people feel Thorek is cheesy. I have found that most people are not as critical of just an Anvil, but are specifically critical of the Thorek+Anvil. This leads me to believe the opinions are based on his special character abilities.

Just some thoughts.

Ratling guns still auto-hit....and I never faced a non-Thorek anvil

The fact that the ratling gun gets 1 to 6 hits automatically is what I find to be really amusing about it (beyond the supreme mobility and other annoying little bits). It's not until you roll the d6 the 2nd and 3rd, etc times that you risk blowing it up.

To answer the original poster:

Gunlines aren't cheesy. They're the least expensive dwarf armies you can built with ranged weapons in them. They're just not generally very effective in hand to hand, and not terribly fun to play with (unless you want to see someone cry and stop playing Warhammer when their undead can't break through the sheer volume of death being unleashed).

But, if you aren't sure what's considered appropriate try dropping this on the table in a 500 point game:
1 thane
2 units of warriors
6 bolt throwers

If that doesn't raise eyebrows, the people you're gaming with are tip top!

Dwarf gunline is the worst army in the game.

Nil to very little mvt, no magic (not going to have any with dwarves anyway), a hell of alot of shooting for the enemy to wade through, and then great combat units grind you down when you get there.

Boring for you, even worse for your opponent.

One of the top players in Oz took a combat dwarf army at 2250 points and had great success.

From memory:
Dwarf lord on shieldbearers
Dwarf BSB (with the rune that demands the enemy charges or flees)
Runesmith
20 warriors
20 long beards
12 x-bows
12 thunderers
5 miners
Hammerers With magical standard with rune of slowness- BSB sits here to cause enemies to charge at long range and invariably fail thanks to to rune of slowness... works best on flyers who have to move their full mvt.
Ironbreakers
Bolt thrower
Cannon
Organ Gun
Gyrocopter

4 combat units power accross the field, the artillery and 2 missile unit keep a flank clear.

@ waagh_gonads

I haven't played WHFB in 18 years so I might as well be considered brand new. How in the hell is a dwarf foot-slogging army supposed to get across the table and engage anything that doesn't run straight at them?

olympia wrote:@ waagh_gonads

I haven't played WHFB in 18 years so I might as well be considered brand new. How in the hell is a dwarf foot-slogging army supposed to get across the table and engage anything that doesn't run straight at them?

Strollaz rune + March + Anvil= between one and three dwarf units 18" across the board in turn one!!! suck on that elves!!

Like Gonads said...it is a terribly boring army for all involved. I ran one at the 1k lvl when it is truly stupidly good but beyond that I am a fan of balance. And the list he listed is pretty damn close to what I run at higher point cost...a touch of shooting to get you to move closer to me and than just rock solid units to grind you down. And that ruin that forces people to charge is the Rune of Challenge...I ALWAYS take it now

I love playing Dwarves. Not as much as I like using my Elves, but they are a nice change of pace, mainly because I like to blast the crap out of stuff as they march towards me. But i did once get my Iron Breakers and Hammerers 18" across the board in the first turn. My opponent nearly hit the floor in shock, totally threw off his strategy and I won the game. awesomeness.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

One of the top players in Oz took a combat dwarf army at 2250 points and had great success.

From memory:
Dwarf lord on shieldbearers
Dwarf BSB (with the rune that demands the enemy charges or flees)
Runesmith
20 warriors
20 long beards
12 x-bows
12 thunderers
5 miners
Hammerers With magical standard with rune of slowness- BSB sits here to cause enemies to charge at long range and invariably fail thanks to to rune of slowness... works best on flyers who have to move their full mvt.
Ironbreakers
Bolt thrower
Cannon
Organ Gun
Gyrocopter

4 combat units power accross the field, the artillery and 2 missile unit keep a flank clear.

Huh - I was working up a Dwarf army that looked frighteningly similar to that 'un, except that I had all Thunderers instead of Crossbowmen, no Miners, and I had 2 cannon and 2 Organ Guns instead of the artillery/gyrocopter mix...

Did you get to see that army in action? Just wondering what he used the 5 miners for - was it for going after enemy artillery crews?

Arion wrote:I love playing Dwarves. Not as much as I like using my Elves, but they are a nice change of pace, mainly because I like to blast the crap out of stuff as they march towards me. But i did once get my Iron Breakers and Hammerers 18" across the board in the first turn. My opponent nearly hit the floor in shock, totally threw off his strategy and I won the game. awesomeness.

This. It's amazing how unsettling it is to realize you have a bunch of heavy-armored Dwarves in your face before you've had a chance to do anything. My friend is running a non-Thorek anvil list that really just mucks up any plans unless you know what's gonna happen ahead of time.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Dwarf gunline is the worst army in the game.

Nil to very little mvt, no magic (not going to have any with dwarves anyway), a hell of alot of shooting for the enemy to wade through, and then great combat units grind you down when you get there.

Boring for you, even worse for your opponent.

One of the top players in Oz took a combat dwarf army at 2250 points and had great success.

From memory:
Dwarf lord on shieldbearers
Dwarf BSB (with the rune that demands the enemy charges or flees)
Runesmith
20 warriors
20 long beards
12 x-bows
12 thunderers
5 miners
Hammerers With magical standard with rune of slowness- BSB sits here to cause enemies to charge at long range and invariably fail thanks to to rune of slowness... works best on flyers who have to move their full mvt.
Ironbreakers
Bolt thrower
Cannon
Organ Gun
Gyrocopter

4 combat units power accross the field, the artillery and 2 missile unit keep a flank clear.

So now I have to ask - what makes a gunline? That list has more shooting than close combat units.

i played against dwarves with high elves against my friend, and dwarves can absoluetly annihilate an low armoured unit (As i stared in dismay as his unit of 10 thunders killed 8 swordmasters and my noble in a single volley... ) I would use your army list against low armoured enemies