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I've come into some good fortune lately with the Tau. A friend who has a lot of Crisis suit models is offering to sell them to me for pennies on the dollar and I just so happen to want to expand my painting techniques and I think Tau is just the army to do it with.

So I've come for some help Dakka. I really don't know anything about the army and reading through the codex is a little confusing. It's hard to memorize all the equipment so fast. So far, having the suits available, I want to do a Crisis Suit heavy Tau list. My main problem is that I've just only barely picked up the codex. I'd like to know what are the tried and true set ups for Command squads and Crisis Battlesuit teams. What I've been thinking of running so far are 2 Command HQs with bodyguard, 2 teams of Crisis suits, 1 Stealth Team for markerlights, 2 Fire warrior squads, 1 pathfinder squad, and some hammerheads or broadsides. But as you could probably tell by that list, I am still quite lost.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Please remember that the following is all fust IMHO

First, Don't over gear your suits. When confronted with the possibilities for so much cool stuff there is usually a tendency to overload.

Second, Regular crisis suits work really well lately at 2 per squad and at 46-54 pts a piece. Any points over not as efficient.

Third, Shield generators and drones. It's tempting to put 'em on everything but I've found that for your moneys worth, it best to only put them on commanders and broadsides.

Fourth, Most effective unit combo I personally have ever had in a Tau army is a 92 pt deepstriking Fusion/flamer/multi-track 2-suit xv-8 squad in the elites. With the pathfinder devilfish they almost always land on target and kill what they're supposed to. Also 92 points for something that makes your opponent turnback to face them is worth the points to the Tau even if you don't kill much with them. It helps to create a hole for you to run through as the enemy charges in.

Fifth, Burst cannons, leave them to the stealth suits. XV-8s are for missles, fusions, and most importantly plasma.

Sixth, Plas/miss, plas/fusion, fusion/miss w/multitrackers seem to be good weapon combos.

Seventh, Special options on commanders, The positional relay and command&control node are worthless. The cib is over-rated and too limiting for anything other than Light Infantry killing. Vectored thrust might be worth something if the commander stood a chance of surviving the HtH as a Monat, its better on an elite shas vre. Regular options, the black sun filter is a waste on any suit other than a broadside but you'll find the multi-tracks or ASS will work better on the one available open wargear slot. Flamers put your commander in too much jepoardy to use them. Everything else is fair game.

Eighth, You'll want a kroot squad with some hounds, They make for a great shield unit for your pathfinders and the hounds initiative 5 can hurt almost every infantry unit out there. 10 Kroot and 7 hounds with no shaper comes to 112 pts.

Nineth, Second squad of pathfinders and run the squads at least 6 pathfinders strong.

Tenth, Seekers are almost a complete waste of points unless you get first turn salvo before your opponent moves. Even then they have never earned their points(My personal experience YMMV).

Eleventh, Rail Heads and Broadsides are probably two of the best units of their respective types in the game.


Aside from all of this, If you magnetize your weapons it'll be easier to explore the options. You may also want to pick up a pirahna squadron at some point(About 3).


Just a few ideas and opinions from my experience

focusedfire's advice is good (Nice Starblazers avatar, there FF)

Here's a sample army's load out:
Shas'el PR/MP/TA HWMT

If you can help it, go with another HQ suit, instead of giving him a team/retinue, since you said you're going suit heavy.

The elite XV8s, ought to have the same set up, called FireKnives, in tau lingo:
PR/MP/TA HWMT for the team leader and his mates get
PR/MP/MT

Paired suits are best as 3 suits in a unit have too large a 'footprint' to hide in this very open game of 5th edition.

Stealths for MarkerDrones, just go with 3 of them, with a Bonding Knife. I dont' use them as so, I just run 6 Stealths with a BK.

FWs: Always an upgraded 'Ui with a BK (as above) and always the full 12 guys. Photon Grenades? Maybe. It depends on if you think your FWs will need to attack rear armor on enemy vehicles. IF, so then your Broadsides haven't done their job.

Any tank tank you use should have Multi-trackers and Disruption pods. Try not to overkit, as each upgrade looks good, but these are the essential two. I also give a Railhead target Lock, as the SMS or Burst Cannons are going to shoot at something the railgun isn't. Three upgrade is good, 4 is pushing it. 5? Well, if you're running a mech list, but you said you're going suit heavy ....

Pathfinder's Devilfish. Use it to pick up a different unit of FWs and bring them to objectives and flanks.

Broadsides: Putting an etheral with them keeps them from ever running away after getting shot up. I run a full 3 suit team, with 2 SDs from the team leader or the ethereal. If you really want a "I'm not going anywhere" broadside team, have each one take a drone controler and each suit take 2 Shield Drones, but most tau players would call it a points sink, citing that the Advanced Stabilization System is better for the unit. Me, too.
I'll leave off advice on the rest.

Lastly, if you really are going to go nuts with Crisis Suits, how about running Farsight's army?

Ok that's some great advice, just what I was looking for focusedfire.

Lets try a 2000 point list as an end goal type of thing.

Command (270)
Shas'el, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield drone, Gun drone 112
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Fusion blaster, Shield drone 79
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Shield drone 79

Command (270)
Shas'el, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield drones, Gun drone 112
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Fusion blaster, Shield drone 79
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Shield drone 79

Crisis Team (110)
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Plasma rifle 64
Shas'ui, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Fusion blaster 46

Crisis Team (110)
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Plasma rifle 64
Shas'ui, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Fusion blaster 46

Stealth Team (235)
Shas'vre, Markerlight, Shield drone, Target array 75
4x Shas'ui w/ Target array 160

Fire Warriors (140)
Shas'ui, Markerlight 30
11xShas'la 110

Fire Warriors (140)
Shas'ui, Markerlight 30
11xShas'la 110

Kroot Squad (112)
10x Kroot 70
7x Kroot Hound 42

Pathfinder Team (186)
Shas'ui 22
7x Shas'la 84
Devilfish 80

Pathfinder Team (186)
Shas'ui 22
7x Shas'la 84
Devilfish 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

leaves me at 1999. Does it look good? Do I need to pull anything back a little? Just looking at it I think I might be sinking too many points into the stealth team.

Pretty good just some tweeking and learned philosophy of the Tau.IMHO, The Tau are about homogeny. Their units seem to work better if equipped identically with the only exceptions possibly being the command or stealth squads.

Working from just my personal experience(ymmv) you'll want the 2 man elite teams equipped Identically and then assign them specific battle field roles according to weapons load out.

On your command squad run only 2 shield drones and then equip the bodyguard with targeting arrays(This leaves more marker hits for other units and removing coversaves). That leaves you only 5 points per command squad or 10 total in the hole to make up somewhere in the list. Personally, I'd run only one bodyguard with him keeping the shield drone and getting the targeting array(You need to think about bonding knives on the fire warriors, pathfinders, command squads, and eventuall broadside teams). Then I'd use the points towards more Broadsides.

Now speaking about Tau heavies, Its the one spot where the Tau really shine and your running that section pretty stripped. Is the lack of Railheads a thematic choice or monetary as in you haven't bought one yet. With this army I can see running two 2-suit teams of broadsides and one railhead eventually. Until then, if you can get a fourth, then run two teams of 2. IMO,also drop the targeting arrays on them for either ASS, shield drones,( both )or multi-trackers and 2shield drones on the team leader. The broasides need those shield drones as much as the command squad. I usually run one per suit. Just remember that drones count towards morale when taking casualties so bonding knives or an ethereal really helps the infantry theme you got going. Naked 2-suit teams aren't under 50% when one dies so the regroup rule isn't a worry.

To make these changes you'll need to come up with some points. Some of the points you can make up by droping the markers on the stealth and fire warriors. Then I'd shift to just one bodyguard per commander because 3 suits without target locks is usually overkill. The Tau are completely dependent upon each part of the army supporting the other. If you have visions of wiping an entire SM squad in one turn with just the one crisis team, forget it, it just doesn't happen. Wish it did, though.

Take a look at your points after playing around with this and see how close you get to fielding that one hammerhead or sniper drone team if you prefer. This isn't even optimizing the fire warrior and pathfinder squads yet. There is still another 44-88 points in those 4 squads if you need.

Good luck and happy hunting

edited for spelling

Focusedfire has some advice for Tau that for the first time since I've joined dakka, I agree 100% on. Score!

Anyhow, as an aside. I've been running crisis suits with missile pod/plasma rifle/multitracker since tau first came out. With few exceptions I can't see any reason to really run anything else.

On my commanders I'll add a fusion blaster (for a total of 3 weapons)

I almost never run stealth suits (maybe for fun). They aren't bad but since you need more troops in 5th ed than previous editions for the same basic roll, killing infantry, put the points into troops instead. By doing that you'll be able to move your bodyguards to the now open elite slot, and save quite a few more points.

And as focusedfire said, your heavies look stripped. At 2000pts I can't see any reason not to have a lot of points in them. 2 railheads and a 3 man unit of broadsides with sheild drones. You will want the railheads for laying down the ownage on horde type armies, couple those templates with removing coversaves of the pathfinders and you have some potent infantry removal. 5 railguns is pretty good at taking out vehicles.

I haven't yet figured out if having any upgrades on fire warriors is worthwhile or not. I tend to make the most out of my devilfish and use my troops just to claim objectives, some games i don't even take them out of the devilfish.

Off-topic, Thank you both, Brothererekose and Sazzelfratz, for your kind words.

On-topic, I think each of our lists are probably equally effective and yet different. If you want we can with the OP's permission post our lists for comparison and explain the tactical philosiphy behind these lists.

Edited for punctuation

focusedfire wrote:
On-topic, I think each of our lists are probably equally effective and yet different. If you want we can with the OP's permission post our lists for comparison and explain the tactical philosiphy behind these lists.

Go right ahead and posts those lists guys. I need all the help I can get and comparison work is very useful.

While at work I was taking in some of the advice here and did a rewrite. I think this list would probably fair pretty well against most armies.

HQ
Shas'el, MT-MP-MP, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-MP-TA 247
Shas'el, MT-MP-MP, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-MP-TA 247

Elites
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 98
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 98
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 98

Troops
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK & ML 125
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK & ML 125
Krootx10+Houndx7 112

Fast
8x Pathfinders w/ Photon, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 199
8x Pathfinders w/ Photon, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 199

Heavy
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs 150
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs 150
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs 150

I decided against running the Broadsides in favor of the Hammerheads. I read through the rules again and I just think the Hammerheads will be a lot more viable and versatile. The Crisis Teams role in the army has changed too. I'll be using the Commands for mobile heavy fire squads while using the Pathfinders to deep strike the Crisis Teams to critical positions like behind tanks or behind large groups of troops. The Pathfinders themselves are there for laying markerlights and since I know they will end up getting assaulted I gave them the photon grenades so it won't end so bad. If the Crisis teams come later than I expect then I can use them to hit objectives for denial or just a grab for a quick KP. The Kroot and hounds will try to take objectives while the FWs will be holding back objectives or taking objectives that aren't heavily entrenched on the enemy side. The Hammerheads are heavy fire, can fell tough vehicles and hordes with the sub-munition of the railgun.

I wrote a lot of this in short hand, so if anyone has a problem understanding it I'll edit it back to normal terms. When I pick up a codex I memorize things by shortening the terms and writing lists. Just in case though MT=Multi-Tracker, MP=Missile pod, BK=Bonding knife, TA= target array, F= Flamer, FB= Fusion blaster, ML = Markerlight, BCs=burst cannons

Edit: Quick rules question. If a Crisis Team can see two Pathfinder Devilfish when they deep strike can they reroll their scatter twice? Reading the rules it suggests no, just wondering.

Also if anyone wants to post links to other Tau related threads I'm perfectly fine with that. But I thought I'd bring up paint schemes too. If anyone wants to link to Tau painting threads I'm up for that too. I'm thinking of a color scheme with a deep emerald green (if I can mix sime up)with brighter green edges, codex gray with bleach bone highlights and a Devaln mud wash on the cloth, and I'm not sure on the sept color. What contrasts green well? I was thinking boltgun or mithril earlier. But it doesn't seem that the sept colors are ever metallic though.

That is a very strong list. There are some things I'd do differently but at this pooint its just a matter of personal taste an playstyle.

I will add this one caveat though. you could drop the pfs to 7 each and drop one kroot hound to get disruption pods on all the vehicles.

Now for the 1750 list I've experimented/played lately.

HQ1
Shas 'el- w/plas, fb, multi, &2shld drn
Shas 'vre- w/plas, fb, multi, &ta.............199

HQ2
Ethereal- w/honorblade & shld drn...........75

Elites 1
XV-8 x2- w/plas, miss, & multi...............124

elite2
XV-8 x2- w/fb, flame, & multi..................92

Troop 1
9xfw + shas 'ui- w/bk.............................115

Troop 2
9xfw + shas 'ui- w/bk.............................115

Troop 3
10 kroot + 6 hounds...............................106

Fast 1
5pf + shas 'ui- w/bk
DF- w/dp, multi, & flechette.....................192

Fast 2
5pf + shas 'ui- w/bk
DF- w/dp, multi, & flechette.....................192

Heavy 1
Hammerhead- w/rail, sms, multi, tl, dp, & flechette...190

Heavy 2
Hammerhead- w/ion, sms, multi, tl, dp, & flechette...155

Heavy3
XV-88 shas 'vre- w/multi & hw x2shld drones
XV-88 shas 'ui- w/multi..........................................195

Now I join the ethereal to the broadsides and use them along with one of the PF teams as sort of a bait/anchor. I'll quite often screen them with the kroot unless a really advantageous piece of terrain or something in the mission suggests otherwise. I make sure there in plain sight up on a hill to make use of their guns and the ethereals ability.

The 92 point crisis team is a tank eating little piece of nastiness. Worst they've evr done was to immobilise a predator annhilator/exterminator. Due to there placement only one sponson could fire so one of the team survived and finished the job.

Edited for brief tactical description

Do the ethereals ever give you trouble? I suppose people see one and if they know the army at all killing it will definitely give you a disadvantage. But if someone really targetted him with enough fire they might be able to get a few wounds in onto him and kill him. But I guess that makes the Ethereal with the Broadsides an incredible bait unit.

As for the disruption pods, would they really be neccessary? I don't see the front armor 13 skimmer tanks being very vulnerable. I only really took them for the Railguns. Those things are impressive on Hammerheads. But the loss of 2 markerlights from a squad that will probably be toasted in assault isn't much of a worry either.

The disruption pods give you a 50/50 chance of making penning hits go away for probably the first two rounds for only 5 points each. That extra insurance is nice and really helps in a tank dual.

consider the ethereal's honor guard too, most people seem to ignore it, you can drop a squad of FW's and take a cheaper kroot if you still need more troops, but the honor gaurd is 2 points per model more, and they have 4 BS

Then the Ethereal isn't doing his job of making the Broadsides fearless. Also, I have never been able to justify the points sink that is the ethereals honour guard. I've played it before but it isn't as efficient. Especially in a competitive enviroment, there is no way I'd drop a single kroot to waste points on the honor guard.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but I've been able to make every unit in 5th ed Tau work to where it pays for itself in kills, in its ability to move, or to delay the enemy. The only exceptions have been the Honour Guard and Aun 'va. IMHO, The points pulled from other units just to run the honour guard always weakens the army.

Also, the broadsides do a better job of protecting the ethereal and allow him to be in a commanding view to where more units have line of site to him.

@Typeline- It took me a while to find how I wanted to play him. In 4th ed I always ignored the ethereal as an option but in 5th ed I decided to start playing with him. If your planning on having troops outside their transports for any length of time he works really well but isn't a necessity.

I'm suprised that you didn't ask about the Ionhead.

I'd say you need to find 15 points somewhere for Disruption pods on the hammerheads. 5 points for a 4+ save...yes please. You're basically doubling your survivability.

I'd put multitrackers on the hammerheads as well but I guess you don't have to...I just always do. being able to move 6 and fire everything or move up to 12 and fire the railgun is nice, especially now that charges attack rear armor.

You probably want DPs on the devilfish too. I give them flechette dischargers too now, but that's personal preference. Vehicles that are being used to deliver troops to objectives tend to get charged late in the game, and most armies normal troops have a chance to hurt them now...may as well make them pay for it or think about it.

If the honor guard doesn't count as troops anymore it's definitely useless. Tau are short on troops as it is.

@lambadomy, Good points all around. I forgot to mention the multi-trackers on the vehicle being different to the suits. The flechettes I'd still leave to personal choice as with multi's on the devilfish.

@Typeline, I'll try to get off my duff and take some pictures of my army for you. They are about 50-75% there and the paint scheme is DA green, scorched earth, chaos black, and boltgun Army badges for the officers. The highlights (Thats whats left to do) and camo will be catachan green, graveyard earth, and codex grey. Then will wash with whatever my wife/detail painter decides.

I decided upon this colour scheme because of my daily woodland uniform from when I served in the military in the 80's.

So I've realised a mathematical error on the Crsis teams and I'm going to try to fit in the Disruption Pods on the Hammerheads.

HQ
Shas'el, MT-MP-MP, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-MP-TA 247
Shas'el, MT-MP-MP, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-MP-TA 247

Elites
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 104
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 104
Crisis Team x2, MT-(Tl)FB-F 104

Troops
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115

Fast
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191

Heavy
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155

So this list has the Hammerheads with DPs but it loses the Kroot in favor of more firewarriors to fill points. The FWs also lose their MLs. I don't really think they need to have them though. They can mostly handle themselves. What I think I'll really have to rely on sometimes is that no one in my play area is very familiar with Tau. I might be able to stumble through with a few wins at firts but I think later on I might need to switch up the list a little to get an advantage. But it's all worth it.

Typeline wrote:Ok that's some great advice, just what I was looking for focusedfire.

Lets try a 2000 point list as an end goal type of thing.

Command (270)
Shas'el, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield drone, Gun drone 112
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Fusion blaster, Shield drone 79
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Shield drone 79

Command (270)
Shas'el, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Shield drones, Gun drone 112
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Missile Pod, Fusion blaster, Shield drone 79
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, Shield drone 79

Crisis Team (110)
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Plasma rifle 64
Shas'ui, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Fusion blaster 46

Crisis Team (110)
Shas'vre, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Plasma rifle 64
Shas'ui, Multi-tracker, Flamer, Fusion blaster 46

Stealth Team (235)
Shas'vre, Markerlight, Shield drone, Target array 75
4x Shas'ui w/ Target array 160

Fire Warriors (140)
Shas'ui, Markerlight 30
11xShas'la 110

Fire Warriors (140)
Shas'ui, Markerlight 30
11xShas'la 110

Kroot Squad (112)
10x Kroot 70
7x Kroot Hound 42

Pathfinder Team (186)
Shas'ui 22
7x Shas'la 84
Devilfish 80

Pathfinder Team (186)
Shas'ui 22
7x Shas'la 84
Devilfish 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

Broadside Team (80)
Shas'ui, Target array 80

leaves me at 1999. Does it look good? Do I need to pull anything back a little? Just looking at it I think I might be sinking too many points into the stealth team.

One of my first armies was Tau, one way to maximize the effectiveness of Crisis suits is to tailor their weapons to match ranges. So the solid combos would be Fusion/Plas, 12/24 range respectively -- Plas/Missle 24/36 range.

If your going to run that many broadsides, you have to give them ASS so they get slow and purposeful, allows them to move and shot the big railgun shots.

@Makoto001

Check my newest list right above your post in the thread.

I've decided against the Broadsides and equiped my Crsis suits for the ranges they will be working at. Long and short.

Is there a reason you switched away from the kroot?
If your gonna leave a squad out in the open anyway, why not leave a little flexibilty.
I dont know if your aware of the tactic where the troops hop into the pathfinders transports on the first turn.

It's a very good/strong list but I think there may be an error in the twin linking on the elites. Only the Sha'vre would have access to the additional wargear to hard wire. Also, the twinlinking is a little overkill, so if you drop it thats going to give you an extra 48 points to play with.

Just an idea.

What role do your pathfinders serve? I can see that their devilfish give your deepstriking suits a reprieve if you would otherwise have bad deepstrke rolls, and the pathfinders themselves at best um.... increase the baslistic skill of the fire warriors?

I find that if you can abuse crisis suits with rapid firing plasma and using markerlights to increase their BS to 5, and reduce any coversaves you'll usually get twice as far at erasing a unit as a single firewarrior squad would do if they were also rapid firing.

I also think that taking a crisis suit and giving it a TL MP with a TA and thats its only weapon is a wasteful. You'll be good a punking light tanks, but... against any army with heavy tanks or no tanks those models have very limited firepower.

Compare one of your HQs to 3 plasma rifle/missle pod multitracker crisis suits, add a team leader with 2 sheild drones (the group costs less than the hq, and has a lot more flexibility) its not pefect as the shas'el has 1 more ld, and 1 more wound. And you lose some hitting power against tanks, but...with markerlights (from the pathfinders) to increase their BS to 5, compare that to your current set up, and you'll see what I'm getting at vs tanks they are about the same; however against the guy with 5 terminators deepstriking next to you, you'll rip him up.

focusedfire wrote:I dont know if your aware of the tactic where the troops hop into the pathfinders transports on the first turn.

It's a very good/strong list but I think there may be an error in the twin linking on the elites. Only the Sha'vre would have access to the additional wargear to hard wire. Also, the twinlinking is a little overkill, so if you drop it thats going to give you an extra 48 points to play with.

Just an idea.

I think I'm misunderstanding you or you might be misunderstanding how I'm writing the list. Each model in my Crisis Teams has a Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, a flamer, and a multi-tracker. So there isn't any extra wargear on them. I've only got the three choices that each suit can take.

Sazzlefrats wrote:What role do your pathfinders serve? I can see that their devilfish give your deepstriking suits a reprieve if you would otherwise have bad deepstrke rolls, and the pathfinders themselves at best um.... increase the baslistic skill of the fire warriors?

I find that if you can abuse crisis suits with rapid firing plasma and using markerlights to increase their BS to 5, and reduce any coversaves you'll usually get twice as far at erasing a unit as a single firewarrior squad would do if they were also rapid firing.

I also think that taking a crisis suit and giving it a TL MP with a TA and thats its only weapon is a wasteful. You'll be good a punking light tanks, but... against any army with heavy tanks or no tanks those models have very limited firepower.

Compare one of your HQs to 3 plasma rifle/missle pod multitracker crisis suits, add a team leader with 2 sheild drones (the group costs less than the hq, and has a lot more flexibility) its not pefect as the shas'el has 1 more ld, and 1 more wound. And you lose some hitting power against tanks, but...with markerlights (from the pathfinders) to increase their BS to 5, compare that to your current set up, and you'll see what I'm getting at vs tanks they are about the same; however against the guy with 5 terminators deepstriking next to you, you'll rip him up.

What I was going to do with the pathfinders is drive them up and into a more open space, where the Crisis Teams could see them when deep striking. Then have the Pathfinders get out in cover and shoot markerlights, or if the enemy gets too close try to pin them with pulse carbines.

The twin linking for the FBs is to make sure that when I DS them behind some troops or something that they get their shots off. At BS 3 when they drop in I don't want to have them missing then have whatever is in the vehicle, or the vehicle itself to turn around and blow me away. And making a FB twin linked only costs 6 points extra, so I don't know where your getting 48 points from. It's only 18 points to twin link all of them.

As for the suits. I didn't read the portion right above picking equipment, I didn't realize they can't take two missile pods on one guy. That's what I was going for. But silly me, time for a rewrite I suppose.

HQ
Shas'el, MT-MP-PR, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-PR 251
Shas'el, MT-MP-PR, BK, 1x Shield Drone, 2x Guard MT-MP-PR 251

Elites
Crisis Team x2, MT-TlFB-F 104
Crisis Team x2, MT-TlFB-F 104
Crisis Team x2, MT-TlFB-F 104

Troops
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
Krootx10 + Houndx6 112

Fast
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191

Heavy
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155

3 points - replace one FW squad with 16 kroot would be one suggestion/possibility.

With this army, and three railheads, I wonder if three suicide crisis teams are really necessary. Playing this same army, I'd probably only have one team loaded out with the flamer/TLFB. Then I'd remove two guards from one of the Shas'el, and beef the other two crisis squads up to three man squads of PR/MP. This would end up at 2011 though...so you'd have to find someplace to trim still.

Why are the teams 104 points? are there team leaders with bonding knives? Not sure why you'd need the bonding knives in a 2 man squad, i guess they are "below half" if reduced to one wound.

lambadomy wrote:With this army, and three railheads, I wonder if three suicide crisis teams are really necessary. Playing this same army, I'd probably only have one team loaded out with the flamer/TLFB. Then I'd remove two guards from one of the Shas'el, and beef the other two crisis squads up to three man squads of PR/MP. This would end up at 2011 though...so you'd have to find someplace to trim still.

Why are the teams 104 points? are there team leaders with bonding knives? Not sure why you'd need the bonding knives in a 2 man squad, i guess they are "below half" if reduced to one wound.

I keep feeling like I'm missing something in my codex. Each suit is 25, then multi-trackers are 5, Twin-linked fusion blasters are 18 and a flamer is 4 points. So that comes to 52 points a suit, two suits makes 104. Do I have everything right?

And I get what your saying about the need for suicide squads. Maybe I should retool them or figure out their role along with that of the HQs.

Typeline wrote:I think I'm misunderstanding you or you might be misunderstanding how I'm writing the list. Each model in my Crisis Teams has a Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, a flamer, and a multi-tracker. So there isn't any extra wargear on them. I've only got the three choices that each suit can take.

A twin-linked weapon takes up two of the 'hardpoints' for the suit. The leader can take a hardwired multi-tracker, so he could have a TL fusion blaster and a flamer and a HW multi-tracker. Right now, the regular suits in your list have four 'hardpoints' committed - two for the FB, one for the flamer, one for the multi-tracker.

dietrich wrote:

Typeline wrote:I think I'm misunderstanding you or you might be misunderstanding how I'm writing the list. Each model in my Crisis Teams has a Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, a flamer, and a multi-tracker. So there isn't any extra wargear on them. I've only got the three choices that each suit can take.

A twin-linked weapon takes up two of the 'hardpoints' for the suit. The leader can take a hardwired multi-tracker, so he could have a TL fusion blaster and a flamer and a HW multi-tracker. Right now, the regular suits in your list have four 'hardpoints' committed - two for the FB, one for the flamer, one for the multi-tracker.

Awwww, I see now. Something I overlooked. Well, now considering other advice I probably don't need to actually run the Crisis Teams suicide style to take out vehicles, I have my railguns for the tough ones and MPs for the lighter ones. I guess I'm kind of completely changing how this list plays when I mess with the Crisis Teams or the HQs. Here is what I'm thinking now.

HQ
Shas'el, MT-MP-PR, Guard MT-MP-PR 159
Shas'el, MT-MP-PR, Guard MT-MP-PR 159

Elites
Crisis Team x2, MT-MP-PR 124
Crisis Team x2, MT-MP-PR 124
Crisis Team x2, MT-MP-PR 124

Troops
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
10x FW, Shas'ui w/ BK 115
Krootx10 + Houndx6 112

Fast
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191
8x Pathfinders, Shas'ui w/ BK in Devilfish 191

Heavy
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, BCs, DPs 155

This list is more of a JSJ mid ranged killing type of set up. None of the suits in this list deep strike in and rely on having the pathfinders mark things so the suits can use that to deny cover and boosts BS. But this list is only 1879 pts. Where do I lay my extra points? I could add another 10 FWs with a Shas and BK and add a hound to the kroot squad.

Sorry, my mistake - as dietrich pointed out, your suits are pointed correctly, but illegal. I was doing it with just the TLFB and a flamer (shooting one or the other, not both). This is a common way to do a suicide squad.

If you want your suicide squad to be able to shoot both, you need to make one of the guys a team leader so he can have a hard-wired multitracker that doesn't take up a hard point. But then you're paying even more for the squad.

Sometimes if I'm looking for suicide squads I make them just a HQ unit. Beef him up to BS5 with a targeting array, give him say a FB and a missile pod and a HWMT. he'll be 87 points, but can pop the rear or side armor of most anything pretty effectively.

People have different ideas of what crisis suits are supposed to do, but in 5e with kill points I am never happy creating a sacrificial unit unless it's doing something my army has trouble doing otherwise. Killing tanks is normally not very hard for tau, so I don't often feel the need to drop fusion suits.

In 5e it became easier since it tends to be harder to hide things (at least in the games I play...we would often just declare terrain as "size three area terrain" and hide basilisks and while that was maybe a little ridiculous I rarely find tanks hidden where I can't railgun them anymore)


Plasma/Missile pod suits are very effective all-comers suits. They end up being a tad expensive relative to more focused suits but they are very effective when used correctly. I like them less in 5e - crisis suits are harder to hide and therefore tend to see a lot more instant-death at the hands of lascannons, missile launchers and battle cannons. I try to keep them with shield drones but that just makes them that much more expensive. It's something to experiment with and see how it goes for you.

Kroot hounds are only 6 points each so your kroot+hounds squad is only 106 points. 6 more points to spend!

lambadomy wrote:People have different ideas of what crisis suits are supposed to do, but in 5e with kill points I am never happy creating a sacrificial unit unless it's doing something my army has trouble doing otherwise. Killing tanks is normally not very hard for tau, so I don't often feel the need to drop fusion suits.

In 5e it became easier since it tends to be harder to hide things (at least in the games I play...we would often just declare terrain as "size three area terrain" and hide basilisks and while that was maybe a little ridiculous I rarely find tanks hidden where I can't railgun them anymore)


Plasma/Missile pod suits are very effective all-comers suits. They end up being a tad expensive relative to more focused suits but they are very effective when used correctly. I like them less in 5e - crisis suits are harder to hide and therefore tend to see a lot more instant-death at the hands of lascannons, missile launchers and battle cannons. I try to keep them with shield drones but that just makes them that much more expensive. It's something to experiment with and see how it goes for you.

Kroot hounds are only 6 points each so your kroot+hounds squad is only 106 points. 6 more points to spend!

I'm feeling the same way about the sacrificial suits. Plus it would suck to put down a beautiful model like a suit just to take him off a turn later. I think I'm liking the Missile Pod/Plasma suits. Even if they get popped I will be ok with it. You have to take some risk, there just isn't a suit set up that is invulnerable. With those extra points (Now 1873 of them) I think I should add two hounds and another FW squad. Think those would do well considering the importance of troops in 5e or should I try to use those points to work in shield drones?

I'd consider using some points from somewhere to give yourself disruption pods on the devilfish. I assume that the Troop fire warriors will be jacking the pathfinder's rides, and you'd want to keep them as safe as possible for as long as possible. Disruption pods do that. An option for your pathfinders might be to give the shas'ui a target lock, so you can possibly get a markerlight hit on an alternative unit.

hmm. You could:

make the 10 man FW squads 8 man squads. Add another 8 man squad with a devilfish. Give all three devilfish DPs. that would end up being 80+15+40...135. A little too much. You'd have 4 very mobile troops choices though for scoring, but maybe a third devilfish will just give up too many kill points.

You could give the hammerheads multitrackers (30 points) so they can move 12 and shoot, or move 6 and shoot the burst cannons). And then add one more 8 man FW squad.

you could turn the 3 2 man crisis squads into 2 3 man squads (to maximize the use of markerlights and then add 130ish points of stealth suits (4 suits, a TL with a markerlight is 135)

you could just add one more big squad of kroot

i think all of these would be good options for this list. More troops in 5e is almost always good. I love kroot but they've taken a hit in CC in 5e due to the rules for determining who wins combat (they tend to test on 4s and run away...and even with hounds they have a 50/50 chance to be swept by I4 enemies)

I think the choice depends partly on what you expect to do with the firewarriors. I hated FW in 4e and I still hate them now. I tend to take min squads, mount them in Devilfish and never hear from them again until they need to capture something. But FoF can definitely be effective and they can be murder with markerlight support. If you don't plan to mount them, I'd consider giving the shas'uis a markerlight and maybe a target lock and/or a multitracker if you're feeling generous.