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I was using lash sorcerers. I am coming to my senses and they suck.

they are a fire magnet. so instead of just getting shot. they are getting shot and taking out a squad with them.
they are not very good once they get into combat.

so I going to go with 2 deomon princes to run with my horde of berzerkers

doing this
1. gives them something to shoot at other them my berzerkers
2. gives my combat prowess if they fail to shoot it
3. tank popper.
4. can't be insta killed.

That is what it looks like to me. am I missing something?

skkipper wrote:I was using lash sorcerers. I am coming to my senses and they suck.

they are a fire magnet. so instead of just getting shot. they are getting shot and taking out a squad with them.
they are not very good once they get into combat.

<snip>

That is what it looks like to me. am I missing something?

Anything with a lash is a fire magnet.

yes so they might as well be shooting a non scoring unit. and not the berzerkers running over the open field

I run one of each. What ends up happening pretty much all the time is the demon prince dies first, then the sorcerer. What I also find is that sometimes despite that the prince is more easily picked out, its meatier in combat, and... since it can't or rather, isn't forced to join a squad (because it can't) I can lash units and shoot them with more of my army. However the flexibility has the draw back that you can't hide him if your opponent has enough guns to take him down in a single round. At the moment I think I found a balance in taking one of each.
However in the defense of the sorcerer, if you take a familiar and warp time in addition to the lash of torment, you suddenly have the option to make this guy into a combat monster.

Lash Princes are pretty nice. I go back and forth between a prince and sorceror. The prince runs solo and is a huge fire magnet, it's usually dead by the third turn. I also like to take a sorceror in termie armor and stick him on an objective in cover with a squad of noise marines. He lasts pretty well even through vindicator shots, the problem is one high strength shot gets through and he's toast.

Sazzlefrats wrote:I run one of each. What ends up happening pretty much all the time is the demon prince dies first, then the sorcerer. What I also find is that sometimes despite that the prince is more easily picked out, its meatier in combat, and... since it can't or rather, isn't forced to join a squad (because it can't) I can lash units and shoot them with more of my army. However the flexibility has the draw back that you can't hide him if your opponent has enough guns to take him down in a single round. At the moment I think I found a balance in taking one of each.
However in the defense of the sorcerer, if you take a familiar and warp time in addition to the lash of torment, you suddenly have the option to make this guy into a combat monster.

But if you give a Sorcerer MoS, LoS, Familiar, Warptime It costs 155 points. A DP with MoS, LoS costs 155 points. It pretty much defeats itself. Might as well have the DP.

Princes are the best chaos HQ option. Everything else is subpar with the exception of the special characters IMO.

Typeline wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:I run one of each. What ends up happening pretty much all the time is the demon prince dies first, then the sorcerer. What I also find is that sometimes despite that the prince is more easily picked out, its meatier in combat, and... since it can't or rather, isn't forced to join a squad (because it can't) I can lash units and shoot them with more of my army. However the flexibility has the draw back that you can't hide him if your opponent has enough guns to take him down in a single round. At the moment I think I found a balance in taking one of each.
However in the defense of the sorcerer, if you take a familiar and warp time in addition to the lash of torment, you suddenly have the option to make this guy into a combat monster.

But if you give a Sorcerer MoS, LoS, Familiar, Warptime It costs 155 points. A DP with MoS, LoS costs 155 points. It pretty much defeats itself. Might as well have the DP.

A DP is 155 with wings, so really the sorcerer with all that and wings is 175. Yes it is more expensive. It'll cost you another CSM maybe 2. What's better though? 1 sorcerer without warptime and 2 csm, or 1 sorcerer with warptime? Thats a call you have to make. Mathammer says the sorcerer with 2 csm on the charge against the warptime sorcerer dishes out .72 wounds, whilst the warptime sorcerer, deals a whopping 1.875 wounds. And if the non-warptime sorcerer can only deliver .55 wounds, there's a 50/50 chance that you'll get the force weapon effect off and they won't.

And if you pit a warptime demon prince against a warptime sorcerer you get the DP doing 1.92 vs .92 wounds. So whilst the demon prince does more wounds, the sorcerer gets the force weapon effect off and kills the demon prince. End result... the 175pt sorcerer may possibly be worth it.


edited because I can't spell sorcerer

Lash sucks. You should use a Nurgle Chaos Lord with Daemon Weapon, Combi-flamer and Palanquin.

Ha. I prefer sorcs in higher points games still. If you don't want it with a scoring unit, burn a heavy slot with some CC geared Havocs if you think you can spare it or get a "retinue" of chosen. Lash into 5 rapid fire plasmas? Yesh...

Sazzlefrats wrote:
A DP is 155 with wings, so really the sorcerer with all that and wings is 175. Yes it is more expensive. It'll cost you another CSM maybe 2. What's better though? 1 sorcerer without warptime and 2 csm, or 1 sorcerer with warptime? Thats a call you have to make. Mathammer says the sorcerer with 2 csm on the charge against the warptime sorcerer dishes out .72 wounds, whilst the warptime sorcerer, deals a whopping 1.875 wounds. And if the non-warptime sorcerer can only deliver .55 wounds, there's a 50/50 chance that you'll get the force weapon effect off and they won't.

And if you pit a warptime demon prince against a warptime sorcerer you get the DP doing 1.92 vs .92 wounds. So whilst the demon prince does more wounds, the sorcerer gets the force weapon effect off and kills the demon prince. End result... the 175pt sorcerer may possibly be worth it.

You have a problem there. The DP has eternal warrior. He can't be instant deathed from the sorc's force weapon. Also in the turn the sorc assaults or is assaulted by the DP he can only use one power. So he won't be able to set anything up with Lash like the charge into the DP or the warptime and the force weapon.

placed my order for 2 be'lakors today.

Yeap, my bad, forgot about eternal warrior. Anyhow, I did lose a game to a biked, warptimed, lash sorcerer. I couldn't target the sob as it jumped from squad to squad until it grabbed my sorcerer. On the other hand, I killed my opponents DP with oblits on turn 2. If I see a double DP list, I know I'll never be seriously lashed, I'll kill them both first with lots of obliterator sniping. With that being said, I'm not overly impressed with 2 sorcerers as they are point sinks to make good. I'm also not sold on 2 DP. Each has their own distinct advantages. Having the option to switch to warptime when the situation changes during the game has me sold. Neither suck, I think the best mix is one of each... for now.

Typeline wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:
A DP is 155 with wings, so really the sorcerer with all that and wings is 175. Yes it is more expensive. It'll cost you another CSM maybe 2. What's better though? 1 sorcerer without warptime and 2 csm, or 1 sorcerer with warptime? Thats a call you have to make. Mathammer says the sorcerer with 2 csm on the charge against the warptime sorcerer dishes out .72 wounds, whilst the warptime sorcerer, deals a whopping 1.875 wounds. And if the non-warptime sorcerer can only deliver .55 wounds, there's a 50/50 chance that you'll get the force weapon effect off and they won't.

And if you pit a warptime demon prince against a warptime sorcerer you get the DP doing 1.92 vs .92 wounds. So whilst the demon prince does more wounds, the sorcerer gets the force weapon effect off and kills the demon prince. End result... the 175pt sorcerer may possibly be worth it.

You have a problem there. The DP has eternal warrior. He can't be instant deathed from the sorc's force weapon. Also in the turn the sorc assaults or is assaulted by the DP he can only use one power. So he won't be able to set anything up with Lash like the charge into the DP or the warptime and the force weapon.