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So, after ive got another 500-1000 point of dark angels it will give me a like 2000pt army overall. Then i want to move onto another army. I really like daemonhunters,,,but im not sure whether to collect them next or not,,,everyones thoughts would be appreciated, whether you think i should collect those or any other army...thanks =)

I played DH in a league for the last 4 months. Here's my 2 cents:

THEY ARE A TERRIBLE ARMY.

I detailed most of my reasons in this post.

http://www.cincinnatiaresenalgaming.com/40k-general-discussion-f14/grey-knights-suck-t2432.htm

The termies are pretty cool, but not necessarily better than vanilla terminators. They are the only thing GK have going. The power armor guys are terrible. 150pts for five with no gear vs. 180pts for 10 regular marines with a flamer and missile launcher. It's not rocket science which is better.

Don't let that shrouding rule fool you. In a dozen games it has worked ONCE. One time. That was it.

If you're more interested in the Stormtrooper/Inquisitor side of things you should just play IG and take an Inquisitor ally. It would be pretty much the same army but you have the option to take bigger guns if you want them.

The Land Raider spam lists are okay, but Dark Angels do it better and you already have those.

They do look really cool. And if you just want to show them off and screw around that's all good. Just don't expect competetive play from them. It's usually a fight just to get a draw with these guys. If you win it is because the other player made some incredible blunder or played daemons. They autowin against daemons.

Have you read this guide?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/SO_YOU_WANNA_PLAY_PURE_GREY_KNIGHTS:_a_tactica_for_the_masochistic

I found it really useful

Despite having Grey Knights as my main army, I have to agree with Mike Leon for the most part.

We have a few advantages, like having great Terminators, the ability to spam Land Raiders, and having an incredible CC HQ choice in the form of a Grand Master, but overall, everything's too expensive. Our troops choices are way overpriced, and our actual unit selection is extremely limited.

They're fun to play, and they look awesome, but they really lack anything to make them good. It's not like it's impossible to win with them, but you'll have a hard time doing it. Against armies with lots of armour, you had better have a lot of LRs, or you're screwed. They've probably aged worse then any other army in the game. Which is a real shame, considering that they probably won't be seeing a new codex for another 5 years, if they even see a new one at all. Essentially, it can only get worse.

RikTheDick wrote: So, after ive got another 500-1000 point of dark angels it will give me a like 2000pt army overall. Then i want to move onto another army. I really like daemonhunters,,,but im not sure whether to collect them next or not,,,everyones thoughts would be appreciated, whether you think i should collect those or any other army...thanks =)

I play Daemonhunters, I think there the best, kept me in 40k proper good.
Theres two ways to play them, my way or everyone elses way.
Don't listen to everyone elses play style, GK's play best cautious deployment -> defensive turn 1-2 -> agressive turn 3 pull out some stunning turns.
The classic good vs. evil fits in very well, in fact if enjoy this theme I would encourage you to read some of the books even if you decide not to collect them.
Don't listen to complete disreguard of them.
just make sure:
No pyscannons more Incinerators. Plasmaguns.
Ratio
1:1 GM / GK army
1:1 LR / LRC
1:1 GK / GKT
1:1 IST / GK+GKT
That is the basic formula for a succesful Knight army.

Then for fun: add in some cool FW dreadnought an Inquisitor Fire base and some cool assassins and it's going to be a very fun day.

@Mike Leon

What the link you posted told me is that....you're playing them wrong.

You get no arguement out of me that GK's are at a disadvantage and a bit of a handicapped army, but sucking? Thats a little harsh.

Shrouding works for me ALL THE TIME. Cause I use GK's the way they're supposed to be used. Grey Knights are a miniature Gunline army with very few "competetive" builds. When you start looking at the psycannon and stormbolter with targetters as your primary weapons instead of the Nemesis, its a step in the right direction.

Just because a list isnt as point and click as Nob Bikers or Chaos dual lash doesnt mean it "sucks", playing Grey Knights requires precision, patience, just a little luck, and knowledge of your limitations. They'll never be a Top Teir armylist, but they're REALLY fun to play when you get it right. They dont SUCK, they're actually an extremely rewarding army to play.



......and they dont autowin against daemons, not in tournement play.

Deadshane1 wrote:
You get no arguement out of me that GK's are at a disadvantage and a bit of a handicapped army, but sucking? Thats a little harsh.
...
Just because a list isnt as point and click as Nob Bikers or Chaos dual lash doesnt mean it "sucks", playing Grey Knights requires precision, patience, just a little luck, and knowledge of your limitations. They'll never be a Top Teir armylist, but they're REALLY fun to play when you get it right. They dont SUCK, they're actually an extremely rewarding army to play.

I completely agree

By the way, Deadshane1, thank you for writing the "Masochistic Tactica", as a said a few post above, it has been really helpful for me

Shrouding's only ever helped me once. Of course, that one time it helped me was awesome, because it stopped a boomgun, but in the end, it didn't amount to much, as my ally's GM(he played GK too) ended up getting killed by the orks, which left my GKT to be raped by a team of Deathwing and Nobz at the same time. Which is a shame, since they could have easily killed both, had they done one at a time, or had the GKT gotten the charge.

But from what I've seen, shrouding seems to work 2 ways. Either almost all the time, or almost never. In my case, almost never.

Also, as to how I play... I'm still trying to find a good medium between assaulty and shooty. I tend to play my termies as all out assaulty, which works when you don't get overwhelmed(6 nobz and 8 deathwing at the same time is NOT FUN), but when GKT have control in CC, they will win. The issue is just moving so you have that control. I have yet to properly do that.

PAGK is a different case. They make a great gunline, but that will never justify 10 points over the base cost of a space marine. As such, you get the urge to assault with them, in order to gain the benefit of WS5 S6, but it'll rarely work unless you do it at the right time, due to their stupidly low number of attacks.

Ky'Alur wrote:
By the way, Deadshane1, thank you for writing the "Masochistic Tactica", as a said a few post above, it has been really helpful for me

NP, I had a lot of fun writing it....still need to go back and edit some stuff sometime. I'll prolly do that after this tournement season with some batreps and deeper observation.

Fafnir wrote:Shrouding's only ever helped me once. Of course, that one time it helped me was awesome, because it stopped a boomgun, but in the end, it didn't amount to much, as my ally's GM(he played GK too) ended up getting killed by the orks, which left my GKT to be raped by a team of Deathwing and Nobz at the same time. Which is a shame, since they could have easily killed both, had they done one at a time, or had the GKT gotten the charge.

When I first started playing this army, I was using a full 4 man unit of terminators with a joined BC that went no less than 8 games before a single casualty was caused to the unit. I attribute this mainly to Shrouding and escorts of Targetter armed PAGK units (with a shout out to cover saves). Shrouding works if you decide to use it and use it properly. Saying that shrouding doesnt work when you dont specifically TRY to make it work is like saying that suntan lotion doesnt work despite the fact that you wear it improperly or didnt cover your body in it. CAN you still get burned if you use it properly? SURE you can, but your chances of GETTING burned are significantly lessened.

Also, as to how I play... I'm still trying to find a good medium between assaulty and shooty. I tend to play my termies as all out assaulty, which works when you don't get overwhelmed(6 nobz and 8 deathwing at the same time is NOT FUN), but when GKT have control in CC, they will win. The issue is just moving so you have that control. I have yet to properly do that.

You HAVE to play this army like it is a gunline if you want to win games against good opponents. You have a strong COUNTERASSAULT, not a good ASSAULT game. There is a big difference.

PAGK is a different case. They make a great gunline, but that will never justify 10 points over the base cost of a space marine. As such, you get the urge to assault with them, in order to gain the benefit of WS5 S6, but it'll rarely work unless you do it at the right time, due to their stupidly low number of attacks.

Shrouding helps to justify the extra ten points, if you can attack flanks of an army (instead of pushing down the middle) oftentimes shrouding will still help. Try to avoid advancing unless you're inside a LR, if pressed by troops attempting to assault ALMOST ALWAYS continue to back up firing storm bolters, if you advance shoot, then charge sometimes not only do you close the distance to the target, but often you close the distance to HIS REINFORCEMENTS. You'll charge, fight a combat, then he charges in with more....if you back up, then at best all he'll be able to engage you with is the foremost unit...after its been softened up.

Playing Grey Knights is often a delaying game. Trying to maintain the healthy status of your troopers/tanks while doing as much damage as the dice allow you to do. Keeping your distance is EXTREMELY important in this. I never advance unil the very last second (most of the losses/ties I have are due to this fact), and If I can win without moving more than 6" away from my table edge, you can bet your bolter I'll be doing just that. Games are frequently close (always exiting) but I've RARELY been wiped out despite the fact that my 1850 pt army only has 28 or so models in it.

Landraiders pop threats to themselves first then the next priority is to gun down transports that quickly bring threats to my troopers. If infantry is going to be forced to walk across the board and I've got raiders active, I'm always pretty sure of at least a tie....thats the first step to not losing. Raiders are mobile bunkers for my troops if dangerous threats get within my lines...that is, until I'm able to disembark and handle the problem. I almost consider LandRaiders a DEDICATED transport for my PAGK squads. PAGK's feel almost naked without the safety and firepower that a landraider lends. LR's are key to a successful Grey Knight army....but I could go on and on.....*

The main problem is that my LGS plays one big team game every month. Baiting and waiting an opponent out doesn't really work when they have plenty of other targets to go after. And since I won't be getting any LRs for a while, I'll need some other way to cover my tail.

Would using my allies as a wall help? I'm thinking position them behind my allies, and march them right after them. Get in range, and just keep shooting. If they want to hurt the PAGK, they have to go through the allies first. If they shoot at my PAGK, the allies get a free walk. Deepstrike has proven to be just as hurtful as it is helpful to me, so I'd rather not risk it on my termies.

Also, termies. Pretty much the main reason why I love GK so much. I'm thinking that I should just keep a low profile with them, until the opposing team puts out the highest priority kill target within reach, and then sick the termies on it. Perhaps hide them behind terrain until I can find what I'm looking to kill, and just ignore them until that time comes. Hopefully, I can get my opponent to forget about them that way....

Deadshane1 wrote:

Ky'Alur wrote:
By the way, Deadshane1, thank you for writing the "Masochistic Tactica", as a said a few post above, it has been really helpful for me

NP, I had a lot of fun writing it....still need to go back and edit some stuff sometime. I'll prolly do that after this tournement season with some batreps and deeper observation.

Well, I really hope you do it soon!

Really, this guide is awesome. A lot of people could do a guide about how to kick asses with nob bikers or sternguard veterans, but taking a "useless" (or at least, perceived as it) army, and teaching how to effectively using it... Man, this is priceless.