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ok, so i really like the idea of 3 minimum swooping hawk squads that jump in, drop a template, then jump out. completely immune to enemy fire, and still live to contest in turns 5-6-7

i would paint them as ninjas teleporting in, releasing a hail of shurikens then darting into the shadows, the victims completely unaware of why they are dying.

they obviously bring a good amount of anti-infantry firepower to the table. couple this with 3 ninja wraithlords (yes one of them will be posed like trinity in the matrix (yes that pose)) for anti tank and a jetbike-mounted seer council and you have a fairly deadly force that doesn't offer any easy targets.

then you come to troops >.<

what should i couple with this? originally i thought gaurdian squads with seers to stand near the wraithlords and add to their move and shoot heavy weaponry, but they would just be cannon fodder. so what should i use? i thought maybe wraithgaurd and gaurdian jetbikes, who are both hardy in their own ways.

so a list might look like this:

HQ

Farseer, singing spear, spirit stones, jetbike, fortune, guide 158 pts
with 5 warlocks, bikes, spears, 3 destructors, 1 enhance, 1 embolden 290pts

ELITE

- zilcho

TROOPS

10 wraithguard, seer 374pts
3 guardian jetbikes 66pts

FAST ATTACK

5 swooping hawks, exarch, skyleap 132pts
5 swooping hawks, exarch, skyleap 132pts
5 swooping hawks, exarch, skyleap 132pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

wraithlord, dual flamers, lance, EML 155pts
wraithlord, dual flamers, lance, EML 155pts
wraithlord, dual flamers, lance, EML 155pts

TOTAL 1749

the wraithguard would hang with the lords near an objective, being hard to kill, hopefully in cover.
the jetbikes hang back for last turn objective dives
the hawks do their ninjaing on infantry hordes
the wraithlords kill their tanks and transports
and the seer council tackles any heavy infantry/monstrous creatures


what do you think? i especially would like feedback on how to do the troops part of things, keeping in mind that i want them to be more than cannon fodder.

I dont know much about eldar but going by your list I would say guardians in a transport for survivability and late game objective snatches.

With the transported guardians, what weapons would you put on the wave serpent. Also how do you feel about losing the shooting of the heavy weapon? Just get the shuriken cannon and count it as a loss? Would you get a warlock for this squad.

Also, how would you play them considering if you don't keep them by the wraithlords, there's a 50% chance one of them will stand there and do nothing each turn?

well like I said I really dont know. I haven't played against eldar in a long time.

Fist Drop the Spears on your sear counsel, you will need the extra attacks in CC, plus that frees up 3 points per model. With those points give the guardian jet bikes a Shuriken Cannon.

Then Drop a wraithlord, and get an Aurach (SP) with a jetbike and a shinning spear to hang out with the farseers or the guardians.

After squeeze in another group of 3 jetbikes with a ShC (you may have to drop a wraith lord down to Scatter and ShC to do this, I am doing points in my head and might be off, but that's ok since the seers strike at str 9 vs armour)

If you are transporting guardians you make them storm guardians and the HW is a mute point.

WS should have TL shuriken cannons on top, and always take Spirit stones with them. Also a nice trick is to take star engines and after you drop your load start ramming tanks at Str 10.

come on ninja.... if you are doing ninja do ninja.... where are your rangers?!.... you need your ninjas hiding in the bushes. drop those jetbikes, get rangers.

don't know what you are guiding, consider stripping guide and spirit stones, add runes of warding (stops enemy psyckers dead).

drop the spears on the warlocks as suggested, and use all recovered points to get more models.

I doubt this list will work, its slow, not enough units to deal with threats. Try it though, and dont forget you need conceal on the wraithguards spirit seer.

Your wraithguard are currently elite choices (and under-point cost neways) as that warlock isnt a spirit seer.

If you assume he is, then look at the points again and correct it. Those jetbikes will die horribly.. they might run around for ages and do fine, getting ready to cap an obj but even a hint of fire and they will run away.

Mixing seer councils + wraithlord spam + wraithguard troop choices + hawk spawn WITHOUT autarchs is generally a bad move.

Razerous wrote:Your wraithguard are currently elite choices (and under-point cost neways) as that warlock isnt a spirit seer.

10 wraithguard ---> become a troop choice.... per the codex

Mixing styles of eldar together if you are running only the stuff that won't die in the first place, isn't the worst thing in the world. Other than the 3 jetbikes which won't work (aka replace with rangers) he'll have a list that might do someting, but in all likelyhood at least it won't die.

thanks for the tips all.

i like rangers, but i don't like having to chose movement or shooting. also i don' think they very ninja like, ninjas are swift and agile.

i like the idea of an autarch to add punch to the seer council, only reason i didn't have a cannon on the jetbikes was i didn't want to tempt myself with doing anything other than hiding till the end game (and points)

i suppose so long as i don't sit them on an obvective, rangers could be quite survivable hiding in a corner where it would take to long to assault them out.

stupid wraithsight. if it wasn't for that, troops would be easier. how would i do objective missions with rangers? if i sit them on an objective they will almost certainly be an assault target.

Okay - what do the swooping hawks do? Totally surviveable? If you keep bouncing them back to reserves then your gona have trouble rolling those 4's, 3's and then 2's on the 4th turn. As thier are no autarchs.

DoctorKnockers wrote:ok, so i really like the idea of 3 minimum swooping hawk squads that jump in, drop a template, then jump out. completely immune to enemy fire, and still live to contest in turns 5-6-7

I hate the rain on your plan here, but I think that you'll find the hawk bombs are generaly rather ineffective at doing much of anything. And while your opponent won't be able to attack the hawks as long as you keep bouncing them off the board, you also don't know for sure when the game is going to end, so your guys are going to either be sitting out there towards the end (where they are easy to kill) or they'll be off the board when the game ends. In either case, they are unlikely to be contesting.

the jetbikes hang back for last turn objective dives

Again, since every game has a random length, you only know when the last turn is if you make it to turn 7. This makes last turn grabs difficult.

if i sit them [rangers] on an objective they will almost certainly be an assault target.

Sure they'll be an "assault target", but the enemy has to get to them in order to assault. Just make sure that they are sitting on an objective in your deployment zone. Then any would be assaulters will have to get though your whole army to assault your rangers.

well on my second turn, i'm likely to only get 1 or 2, turn 3 chances are i'll get 2, turn 4 i'll get 2 or 3, and turn 5+ i get all 3 everyturn.

on average that's 9 templates in a 5 turn game. for 396 pts that can't be killed until i allow you to, and can contest at the end. if it's kill points, that's 3 killpoints you wont be getting, and there's 12 templates in a 6 turn and 15 in a 7 turn game.

if there's 1 objective i really need to get i can contest in waves so i have 1 jump in on turns 5, 6 and 7.

what about if i have say a unit of rangers/pathfinders for about 100-120pts and a unit of guardians with a scatterlaser and a seer with a wave serpent to hang with the wraithlords and when the enemy comes near or i need an objective i mount up, and flee?

ok, so i've revised my list, what do you think now?

TROOPS

3x 5 DA in serpent w/ twinned shuriCan, SS 185pts each

HQ

Farseer, doom, fortune, runes of warding, SS, bike 175pts
Autarch, mandiblasters, bike, laser lance, reaper launcher 155pts
10 warlocks, bikes, 8 destructor, 1 enhance, 1 embolden 550pts

FAST ATTACK

3x 5 swooping hawks, exarch, skyleap, intercept 137pts each

HEAVY SUPPORT

wraithlord, lance, EML 155pts

2001pts

enough antitank?