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Hi all, I saw a couple of threads on using a librarian and gate of infinity, but didn't see any on using two of them in tandem.I was thinking of taking a list with 2 librarian Epistolaries each with Terminator armor and storm shield with GOI and Avenger @190pts each.

The basic idea for the tactics would be to use GOI to pop beside a unit in a spot to maximize number of hits with the template. Since the librarian would be solo, there would be no scatter. Then the other librarian does the same thing to the same unit. This would be very effective against MEQs, likely being able to knock out a marine squad in 1 turn, or at least reduce it's combat effectiveness to nil.

The pair could be customized for use against different armies. For example, take smite if you are likely to be going against terminators. Take vortex if going against armor lists. Basically I was thinking of using them like knights in a chess game.

Pros: Extremely mobile
Very Effective against MEQs
Provide null zone
Able to pick off infantry units that like to hang out in the back, like lootas or dark reapers.

Cons: Can lead to 2 expensive models sitting vulnerable to fire from nearby units.
Would not be effective against vehicles
would have to operate in tandem with another unit to be effective against large mobs (by attaching to another unit and then
using GOI

Also, what would be helpful units to take with this pair, say for a 1500pt list? ideally looking for units that would draw fire away from the librarians. I'm thinking land raider or a lot of other armor units.

Paying 100 points for 2 avengers is just plain wrong. 5 points more buys you a dreadnought.

You are not just paying for the avengers. You are paying for the move 24" and fire a template weapon that ignores cover and 3+ armor saves. Also, even a drop podded dreadnaught after the initial drop suffers from a lack of mobility. Unless killed, the librarians have a huge mobility advantage. That doesn't need to roll scatter. Idividually, they are less effective, as a pair, they have a great deal more utility.

example
L1 x x x x x
x x x x x L2
librarian 1 uses GOI infinity to teleport to the flank of a unit, the second teleports to the other. Per deepstrike rules, they can shoot the turn they arrive. Epistolary means they can use two powers a turn.

Are you sure they dont scatter?
My understanding was they use the normal deep strike rules and if there is a squad with them then there was a chance of a death in the squad (no chance if no squad).

Now that I have re read the rules, no I am not sure they don't scatter. The rule states that Librarian and any unit he takes with him redeploy using deepstrike rules. If he travels alone nothing happens, if he travels with a unit and a double is rolled on the scatter one member is lost to the warp.

I had originally read that to mean if he went by himself, there was no scatter. My mistake.

In that case I would say this strategy no longer is viable.

Mango wrote:Now that I have re read the rules, no I am not sure they don't scatter. The rule states that Librarian and any unit he takes with him redeploy using deepstrike rules. If he travels alone nothing happens, if he travels with a unit and a double is rolled on the scatter one member is lost to the warp.

I had originally read that to mean if he went by himself, there was no scatter. My mistake.

In that case I would say this strategy no longer is viable.

Locator Beacons.

You don't scatter within 6" of them.

Yep a solo Lib still scatters, the librarian just doesn't die due to doubles on the scatter dice like would happen with an attached unit.

Only way this works as advertised is via a beacon -- and that then limits the effectiveness of the tactic.

2 Librairans is still a pretty viable option, just need the right units to work with.

Why not go ahead and expend the extra points and take a 10-man terminator squad? you've already devoted an ungodly number of points into your HQs. This way you can combat squad the termis and put an HQ with each half. Then deepstrike them up and shoot the psychic flamer first then pour on storm bolter and assault cannon/cyclone missile fire to make sure you put down your target.

I think it's great you're going outside the box for tactical solutions, but spending almost 400 points on 2 HQ choices with 4s across the stat board and 2 wounds each just screams, 'here's 1/5 of my army, please punch me six times with a power fist'.

The thing is, why do you really need more range with Terminators? You already have 24'' + 6'' and a relentless Heavy Weapon (24'' or 48''). Plus the Terminators can take a Heavy Flamer for just 5 Pts.

Epistolary is crap IMO. 50 Pts? WTF.

I have thought about it too, I mean, it sounded a neat idea, but you need those Locator Beacons so you don't scatter, which means Drop Pods (or Scout Bikes). You'd need like 2-4 at least. That's a lot of points, and what do you really get? You don't really need the Terminators "everywhere", they're shooty, but mostly anti infantry, and there's a ton of that in the codex anyway.

I think Gate + Beacons only really work with the Sternguard list.

I would guess to make this viable again, you would have to get rid of avenger and take smite. That way you could use GOI with terminators and still get the "shoot", which you would not be able to do with the template. But then it gets to be a very expensive tactic. 780 pts for 12 models, more if you include cyclone or assault cannon.

Also, don't forget that as cool as 2 of these Libbys look on paper, you will eventually end up on the recieving end of Psychic Hoods and Runes of Warding...which will just make those 400 points seem pretty pathetic.

This fact, combined with what others have said makes it pretty clear that it is best not to go with 2 of them.

Three drop pods at most, two with locator beacons. Could easily entail two dreds & one tactical squad.

If you build up this list with some decent anti-armor options in mind AND two units that would/could work effectively either with a GoI libarian or without ( a squad of termies and a squad of drop-podding sternguard for example) then the tatic you mentioned would be killer as it wouldnt be a one-trick pony just somthing you could pull off if it was required.

There are quite a few 3+ save troops which have a relatively massive amount of points sunk into them somtimes, combined with the h.flamers (along with the multi-meltas) you bought for your dreds means you can take on all but the hardiest troops and ignore armor saves. As for TEQ's you can either engage them with dredenoughts or force multiple wounding hits to force too many armor saves. A fairly beefy and unhappy threshold I'll admit.

All that aside a 5man termie squad with a h.flamer can work just aswell, especially if your using drop-pods w/ locator beacons as you wont scatter anyway And youve now got silly amounts of mobile templates.

OTOH two epi-libbys both with the same powers kinda neuters thier utility (nullzone, Might, etc) and sinks alot of points into the quite possibly over-priced epi upgrade.

Don't put them in terminator armor, just attach them to two squads of 10 assault terminators, and give them gate & null zone. Sure it is 1100 points, but with some locator beacon help you'll have 20 assault terminators charging (or getting charged) with the other guy having to reroll any hits he takes from your terminators. Just hope for a good run roll so you don't get hit too bad on the templates.