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Chaplain: Bike, Power fist
150

Captain: Bike, Relic Blade, Storm Shield
175

Command Squad: Apothecary, Bikes, 4x Storm Shield, 4x Power Fist
365

5x Assault Terminators: 4x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield, 1x Lightning Claws
200

10x Tactical Squad: Lascannon, Melta, Razorback
225

10x Tactical Squad: Lascannon, Melta, Razorback
225

10x Scouts: Camo-Cloaks, 5x Sniper Rifle, 5x Combat Knives
170

Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta
65

Land Raider Crusader: Extra Armor, Multimelta
275

TOTAL: 1850
Models: 46
Killpoints: 11


Prety straight forward really I think. Thoughts?

I think that it has too much anti-tank but other than that I think it's a good list.

Well, I'd give the Chaplain terminator armor and let him join the Assault Termies.
Second, I'd give the Tacticals missile launchers as they are more flexible, anti-light-tank and anti-infantry. Lascannons lost an edge due to the new armor penetration table and cover saves.
The Cmd squad can be really nasty but its also quite expensive.

Initially, I was going to un the Chaplain with the Termies, but the command squad needs him to beat Nob Bikes (those rerolls on the charge are very important). The command squad can plow into a full unit of them and win the combat if the captain and chaplain are both in the mix.

You're probably right about the missile launchers, I just wanted something that could threaten av14 vehicles from far away and if I dropthe lascannons, I've got a MM on the storm and another on the Crusader and thats it. Switching to MLs frees me up 20pts, I could get combiweapons on the tac squad sergeants. The I could combat squad my tacticals and have 2 melta shots coming out of the razorbacks. Does this seem ideal?

Those two melta shots would come out of 5man squad after they disembarked.. the razorback has 0 firepoints, just incase you didnt realise.

Um.. that command squad may be able to take on nob bikers but why do you have to mirror what the nobz are doing in a inferior fashion (puttting every egg that ever laid into a basket).. Surely joining the chappy with the termies & then using the termies & the command squad to multi-charge the nob-bikers? That way (im assuming that a joint charge would still work?) youve got a more equally distrubuted army force-wise. Aside from nob-bikers, what would the current command squad with both hq's not annhilate too easily?

The list looks good. Long ranged Anti-tank lascannons, which is just better against light tanks (so why have somthing thats just okay against light vehicles & has trouble with higher AV vehicles?). Also the AP2 versus infantry shouldnt be under-estimated, even if it is only with two weapons.

The only suggestion would be to turn the crusader into a redeemer. Your not using the extra space.
Edit: Just checked (I previously had a comparison between two hurricane bolters & a assault cannon VS one flamestorm cannon @ 12") But at crusing speed you can only fire one weapon, Thanks to PotMS, and a flamestorm cannon wins hands down when travelling fast & while @ 6" you can fire both hurricans & the assault cannon, I still thing two flamestorm cannons wins hands down thanks to the high 6 str & ap3. Plus the auto-hit & coverage goodness of a template.. even if its got a shorter range.

I could get combiweapons on the tac squad sergeants. The I could combat squad my tacticals and have 2 melta shots coming out of the razorbacks. Does this seem ideal?

Seems worth to be considered.

Razerous wrote:Those two melta shots would come out of 5man squad after they disembarked.. the razorback has 0 firepoints, just incase you didnt realise.

Um.. that command squad may be able to take on nob bikers but why do you have to mirror what the nobz are doing in a inferior fashion (puttting every egg that ever laid into a basket).. Surely joining the chappy with the termies & then using the termies & the command squad to multi-charge the nob-bikers? That way (im assuming that a joint charge would still work?) youve got a more equally distrubuted army force-wise. Aside from nob-bikers, what would the current command squad with both hq's not annhilate too easily?

The list looks good. Long ranged Anti-tank lascannons, which is just better against light tanks (so why have somthing thats just okay against light vehicles & has trouble with higher AV vehicles?). Also the AP2 versus infantry shouldnt be under-estimated, even if it is only with two weapons.

The only suggestion would be to turn the crusader into a redeemer. Your not using the extra space.
Edit: Just checked (I previously had a comparison between two hurricane bolters & a assault cannon VS one flamestorm cannon @ 12") But at crusing speed you can only fire one weapon, Thanks to PotMS, and a flamestorm cannon wins hands down when travelling fast & while @ 6" you can fire both hurricans & the assault cannon, I still thing two flamestorm cannons wins hands down thanks to the high 6 str & ap3. Plus the auto-hit & coverage goodness of a template.. even if its got a shorter range.

Yea I was assuming that they'd be disembarking from the Razorbacks to fire their meltas. IIRC troops inside a tank can't use fireports when it moves over 6" anyway and I'm assuming I'll be moving the tanks quickly in order to get into range before the opposing player has a chance to react.

Good point on running the Chappy with the Termies instead of the Command squad. Perhaps it is a bit of overkill to run both HQs together with the command. Would it be better to run the Chaplain or the Captain with the termies?

Solid point on the Redeemer. My original intention with the Crusader was to be able to apply pressure from 24" away because it can move and fire the hurricanes and assault cannon. Once in touch though, the Redeemer is much better. I will save 10pts by making the switch as well, what is th ebest way to spend it?

If that is your only change then I would give your Scout Sarg and Chaplain Melta Bombs or the Scout Sarg a Combi-melta.

That would give the Scouts some anti-vehicle if they are Outflanking, and maybe give the Chaplain something to do if assaulting a Land Raider.

The chappy to go with the termies. Purely because of those thunderhammers, They hit hard and you wanna hit lots. The command bikers can be good at shooting aswell as can the captain with a few ranged weapons/combi-weps. Try and gear the command biker sqaud so that it can perfom well at sweeping advances - kill lots of troop in the shooting charge then actually charge & either descimate or win combat heavily - as they can actually perfom the manouver.

The biker command should be winning combats heavily as they are equipped right now. They throw quite a few str8 attacks on the charge, and with T5 they don't really get scared of the majority of troops out there. T5, 3+/3++ and FNP is not going to die easily at all. I should be winning my charges heavily and then sweeping almost every time with them (assuming rerolls... without rerolls I'd probably switch at least 1 PF/SS for a pair of lightning claws).

Something I'm considering to get re-rolls on my combat units is to switch the captain out for Vulkan (and changing the command squad's fists for hammers) and the Chaplain out for a Librarian on bike (doing all of this means finding the points by switching the Crusader for a Redeemer and switching the Lascannons for Multimeltas). The Librarian is great utility (I'd give him Avnger and Null Zone most likely) as well as a potent threat in combat with his force weapon and Vulkan makes all those hammers reroll hits, greatly increasing their output. At that point though, it loses the flavor of having no special characters, so it isn't a very appealing option for me on that level.

Other things that seem appealing is to perhaps put a melta or two and/or a flamer or two in the command unit, and as previously mentioned combiweapon in the scout squad.
For somre reason I find myself thinking that a second LS Storm would be nice to have. The utility and speed they possess makes them so good. There is a good chance I want another one because I'm a bit hungup on them ight now, it may or may not be a good thing for this list to try and find another 65pts for a second one.

2 dual lightning claws & 2 TH/SS with the captian wielding a relic blade & SS. Gives you a good amount of I4/5 power weapon attacks that wound well - 12 by my count not incl 4 normal str 4 attacks from the Apoth & then another 6 str 8 power weapon attacks at I1.

With turboboosting potentail a full sqaud of SS's isnt really nessicary. Id even go as far to say 3 dual claws & one TH/SS. Youve got the termies for dedicated str 8 death potentail w/ decent chappy re-rolls.

Oh & definetely get the captain artifcer armor. 15pts well spent.

you're not helping your wound allocation business with the command squad. they are all equipped the same? try switching them up a little...

i think your list is ok at best.

your don't really need the captain choice, the land speeder storm is wasted points... since you can infiltrate the scouts....

the terminators w/ LRC are kind of a... why are they when you have the bike command squad? you can drop both, add another tac squad in rhino and two predator w/ AC HB

lascannons should be replaced with multi meltas... and the meltas with flamers.

razorbacks should be rhinos, and if i am doing my fuzzy math in my head right... that should leave room for two MM HF landspeeders and a more solid list.

If I don't take the captain, I can't take the command squad so, I do need him for the current configuration. As for the command squad equipment, I agree some diversity would likely be ideal. It is currently setup to trump Nob Bikes in combat, but with the Termies in the list as well, it isn't really necessary. I would probably switch to a mix of lightning claws and powerfists and perhaps a meltabomb here and there to aid in wound allocation. Soemthing I've also been considering is a couple of meltas or flamers in the unit.

The Storm is incredible utility, don't overlook it.

LR + Assault Termies is easily one of the strongest tools available to SM now, why wouldn't I take it? 2 of the hardest hitting units available to SM are included i nthis list, making it very menacing to oppose. The opposing player has to try and remove 2 very resilient and fast moving threats before they make his army or he is in for a world of hurt.

Lascannons provide me wth some depth of threat, so I don't get caught trying to stick my entire army straight in. This is important because it stretches the opponent. Razorbcaks provide slid firepower and I won't need to mov my tac squads very much. In missions where it would be necessary, the plan is already to combat squad so the meta is mobile in the razorback. I would only switch from Lascannons to Multimeltas if I switched to Vulkan, which is not the point here as I'mtrying to avoid special characters. I can see the merit in switching the Razorbacks for Rhinos though, that is certainly something to consider. It grants me some mobility without needing to combat squad, which I like the prospect of for some situations. It comes down to if I can live without those Heavy Bolters or not.

The TH/SS termies are going to be far more resilient and impactful than some Preds will be. I've already made it clear that any variation of the LR will work fine and I initially picked the Crusader because it can lay down solid firepower while moving 12" though it doesn't seem to be very important. The Preds may be better at eating through huge units of ork boyz or gaunts, but the Termies will damage strong an resilient units with much better effect. The powerful lists these days mostly consist of very resilient troops/units (lash spam with PMs, Nob Bikes, Nidzilla, etc). The 1-2 Horde armies that are still very good are a little tougher to deal with, but I'll see less of them than I will resilient armies in a compettive setting. Swapping the Crusader for a Redeemer has already been discussed and it would greatly improve my matchup against Hordes. Also a third tac squad seems like a little bit overkill on the troops selections. They aren't going to really be powerful units and it is tricky to balance the points spend on utility/scoring (troops units) and impact units (like Biker Command and Termies). I am rather comfortable with 3 full units of troops for scoring units, especially with the ability to combat squad if necessary.

I have already been considering flamers in the tac squads, and I think they are probably a better call than the meltas.

MM/HF speeders are great, but the mobility the storm offers my combat squading scouts is very important. The storm offers me mobility and utility, as well as provides a mode of control over my opponent if he is utilizing deepstrikers, which is never a bad thing. The more rpedictable I make my opponent, the easier it is to play against him and thus easier it is to win the game. Deepstriking doens't seem altogether uncommon at all these days and with armies like Demons and podding marines running around, disrupting their landing is a good tool to have at my disposal.

I'm aware I can infiltrate my scouts and in some scenarios, that may be the best bet. Other times however, it may not be. Just because they can do it, doesn't mean they always should by any means.