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Overread wrote: Release also depends on if GW has something big up their sleeve for Age of Sigmar. Because they were teased so far ahead of their main release its possible that there are other very major releases still to come before them. Since GW's typical preview period is around 3 months or so.
5 battletomes with at least 1, likely 2 paired boxes and at least one of them gets pile of new models.
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ProtoClone wrote: My money is, quite literally, on a Xmas release at the earliest.
LoV would be a great bump to their holiday sales.
I quite interested in seeing the full range.
Would they put new army and major range refresh same month though? Unless november classifies as winter std with big pile of models coming december
September is where i'm expecting. Maybe launch box august if gw does that. Gw doesn't do generally 6 month previews of models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/30 04:48:50
Okay, then what other reason is there to abandon going hard on the crowd pleasing generic dwarven feel other than wanting to build a dwarf that feels unique to 40k? Because I look at the pattern of previous imported races and that seems to be what they like doing.
Why do you just keep repeating "They're unique!" as if that's what's disliked? The issue has nothing to do with the Unique DAoT Astronaut style. The unique direction of high-tech Sci-fi Armoured Astrnoauts is great, no problems with that idea at all.
But if you've paid attention to the Leagues so far I don't see how you can think that they're "abandoning the Dwarf feel".
Lore wise? Short stocky Space Miners and master craftsmen with grudges, beards, beer, dislike of Elves, Ancestor worship, importance of their heritage and culture. They're Space Dwarfs themed with their lore.
Aesthetics? They are also themed on being Space Dwarfs with the various runes, decoration, patterns, beards, hammers and picks etc:
Several bits of the Dwarf Archetype theming seen there. They're a unique take on the Dwarf Archetype both in their lore and their look.
So show the theming that's part of them both in their lore and in other parts of their model range by having some of that on the basic infantry that makes up the core of their army. Do you honestly see that Dwarf animal banner thing on the Theyn Model there and go "Yes, that fits in with the look of the rest of the Squad perfectly fine"? Without the Dwarf aesthetics of the Leagues being present throughout the model range to a slight extent like on the rest of the Hearthkin Squad, the Hernkin Triker, or the Ironkin, it feels randomly stuck on and jarring rather than integrated in a way that feels natural to the model range overall. I really don't get how this is such a difficult thing to understand.
And really, Jervis says right there that they were removed because their theme revolving around Short silly bikers named Squats was a bad idea to use in their implementation of the Dwarf Archetype whereas the master craftsmen with big ornate handcrafted war machines was a better direction for the Dwarf Archetype...so you've decided that what he really meant was he didn't like the Dwarf aesthetics?
NAVARRO wrote: Its the 3rd time this discussion of " they are not good dwarf designs cause they need loads of little icons spam to make them so " leads to nothing. I can understand new people chipping in but the same posters flooding the same opinion does not help. Its just spam.
Squats designs are fresh deal with it. Some people dont like tau some do, some think Primaris are the work of the devil others love it.
Point being opinions are great but become obnoxious if you behave like a broken record and keep on spamming.
Oh look, it's the same meaningless obtuse non-argument of "You just want them to be Fantasy Dwarfs!" that keeps getting parroted even though it completely misses the point.
Andykp wrote: Hostile much? And see if you can squeeze a few more clichés in there too, try virtue signalling, that one always goes down well. You’re a real treat.
End of the day votann will look how they look. Don’t like it, tough I guess. I am still excited for this release. The new models look good to me, and only question mark is in bigger vehicles really?
Seems a little odd to say that having usual dwarf elements of runes and such would make them just "boring fantasy Dwarfs in space" and then say you like the look of the Leagues, considering that Dwarf aesthetic is undeniably a part of them.
I don’t think I did say that. I said I’m glad they are not covered I dwarf stuff, and aren’t just fantasy dwarfs ported over. I like the look of modern sleek but functional armour, the characters look more ornate but that’s cool too. The silly runic stuff on the leaders looks optional so might leave that off, not so keen. Less beards more guns, it looking good.
So, are annoyed that they aren’t dwarfy enough? Cos now you are saying they are dwarfy?
To me it's an issue of that the theming that is part of the Leagues style and their lore is then missing from the miniatures that we've seen almost entirely, outside of on the Theyn banner thing, when it should be present in small amounts throughout their miniatures so something like that fits in in a natural way and doesn't seem jarring. It'll clearly be present on more elite models but that is besides the point as it's lack of it on the basic infantry that makes something like that banner seems out of place, if they had a little of it there wouldn't be as much of a clash. They don't need to be covered all over in runes and ornate elements and all that because that would be too much, just that culture/heritage aspect done to the same degree other armies get their level of faction identity shown on the miniatures so it's overall more cohesive. The modern sleek DAoT armoured astronaut thing a cool direction to that them but its the other side of the Leagues identity that isn't really present on the Hearthkin/Ironkin/Hernkin when it should be.
Fair enough makes sense I suppose but I think we’ve still only seen a tiny section of the range to be and for me it’s not an issue, generally like the look so far. I wouldn’t mind if they dropped it all together, like i said I don’t think I will be adding the leader thing myself, keep them sleek.
Said Void Armor only is a 4+ though if that's what those Hearthkyn are wearing. Although perhaps it has other features or is more cost effective compared to power armor.
The Ancestors are Always Watching made me think of the Paranoia RPG.
Also if they offer up more knowledge to their Votann core, does that make it degenerate or slow down even faster?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/30 12:20:40
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Nice, so their regular troops have better armour than Space Marines and are almost just as effective overall
Explain to me again how they aren't a Mary Sue faction
They're dwarfs- of course they are better...
But this is just fluff - in game they have a lower save of 4+
Could be they are just doing the old "positive spin" on a new faction leaving out the negatives or they could be a faction to contrast/give a bit of relief from the grimness.
The dude talking to the inquisitor/rogue trader reminds me a bit of one of the classic squat command models.
Nice. Liking the art a lot - the 3 profile pics and the meeting pic especially. The faction looks to have plenty of character which I'm loving.
Looking great to me, really cool art. Also I believe that based on the scale photo they are a little bit shorter than the Necromunda models, as predicted.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Nice, so their regular troops have better armour than Space Marines and are almost just as effective overall
Explain to me again how they aren't a Mary Sue faction
They're dwarfs- of course they are better...
But this is just fluff - in game they have a lower save of 4+
Could be they are just doing the old "positive spin" on a new faction leaving out the negatives or they could be a faction to contrast/give a bit of relief from the grimness.
Maybe that's the explanation for the S4 and T4?
Maybe it might be off-battlefield benefits like better survivability or overall more cost effective compared to power armor. A removed model of a human in carapace armor might be dead or permanently disabled, but a Kyn in Void Armor might be incapacitated for that battle but able to recover quickly enough to be combat effective for the next.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 13:04:35
To me it's an issue of that the theming that is part of the Leagues style and their lore is then missing from the miniatures that we've seen almost entirely, outside of on the Theyn banner thing, when it should be present in small amounts throughout their miniatures so something like that fits in in a natural way and doesn't seem jarring. It'll clearly be present on more elite models but that is besides the point as it's lack of it on the basic infantry that makes something like that banner seems out of place, if they had a little of it there wouldn't be as much of a clash. They don't need to be covered all over in runes and ornate elements and all that because that would be too much, just that culture/heritage aspect done to the same degree other armies get their level of faction identity shown on the miniatures so it's overall more cohesive. The modern sleek DAoT armoured astronaut thing a cool direction to that them but its the other side of the Leagues identity that isn't really present on the Hearthkin/Ironkin/Hernkin when it should be.
Even if you totally ignore the whole "dwarf" thing. Their armor is just not good looking, mainly because of the stupid legs that just dont match with the heavy upper part of the armor.
Instead of having a good silhouette that conveil the idea of a sturdy unit, like the necrosquats, these guys just look silly.
Oh man I completely and totally disagree about the armor. It looks pretty badass (imo of course) and also has some (small) basis in realism. Have you ever plastered armor panels all over your legs and tried to move? Now shorten your legs by about 40% and add armor panels and try to move. Sure, in-universe power armor exists, but do we really want more power armor? I feel like we have that covered. . . . One thing I don't like that I'm sure others dont like either is the weird banner things, but I can very easily work around that.
And necro squats are the not silly ones? I mean it's fine to like the necro squats as they have certain charm, but it shouldn't be because they *don't* look silly, lol.
Geifer wrote: I see their armor is also much more betterer than anyone else's. Good. For a minute there I was worried they might be lacking in some field.
GW wrote:Measuring up at around 4ft (1.4m) on average...
And apparently GW's generous conversion rates do not just apply to currencies.
Clearly, WarCom are experienced in the arts of trying to make a Tinder profile
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 13:18:22
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Tau situation.
The first lore we get is too positive for the 40k universe, and so the next iteration of the codex is much more grimdark. Like how they made etherals go from great leaders to possibly mind controlling them with phermones.
GaroRobe wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Tau situation.
The first lore we get is too positive for the 40k universe, and so the next iteration of the codex is much more grimdark. Like how they made etherals go from great leaders to possibly mind controlling them with phermones.
Its also probable that they are putting the lore out there in a manner to give the faction a "dwarf feel", it certainly gives me that warm fuzzy feeling think of dwarfs. The Votann probably aren't very nice I'm guessing and the Kin could be exceptionally mercenary.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Nice, so their regular troops have better armour than Space Marines and are almost just as effective overall
Explain to me again how they aren't a Mary Sue faction
They're absolutely a Mary Sue faction and I'm all for it. Because I've grown to hate 40k over the decades, watching other oldbeards go into convulsions of loathing over squats is a source of innocent merriment.
Marine is about 1,5 times the height of the squat. If we assume the metric measure to be the correctish one, that makes squat almost four and half feet, which makes the marine sevenish feet. Which is the size primaris are roughly scaled to GW's current normal humans. They have never been scaled to eight feet, which would be ogryn sized.
Squats are a tad too large for my liking, I'd prefer them to be a bit smaller and GW scaling continues to be a bit wonky.
I don't know. Your Gods steadily going insane, your populace based on cloned people at the whim of these Gods and the fact that they are also steadily replacing them with automata is pretty dark. The things that you have relied upon for generations to support you starting to fail. I think it's pretty clear they aren't all sunshine and smiles, they're just showing this particular side for now.
GaroRobe wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Tau situation.
The first lore we get is too positive for the 40k universe, and so the next iteration of the codex is much more grimdark. Like how they made etherals go from great leaders to possibly mind controlling them with phermones.
Its also probable that they are putting the lore out there in a manner to give the faction a "dwarf feel", it certainly gives me that warm fuzzy feeling think of dwarfs. The Votann probably aren't very nice I'm guessing and the Kin could be exceptionally mercenary.
That biker is practically demanding his pay from that human.
Crimson wrote: Marine is about 1,5 times the height of the squat. If we assume the metric measure to be the correctish one, that makes squat almost four and half feet, which makes the marine sevenish feet. Which is the size primaris are roughly scaled to GW's current normal humans. They have never been scaled to eight feet, which would be ogryn sized.
Squats are a tad too large for my liking, I'd prefer them to be a bit smaller and GW scaling continues to be a bit wonky.
Except first born 7 feet and primaris custodian size aka 8 feet.
GaroRobe wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Tau situation.
The first lore we get is too positive for the 40k universe, and so the next iteration of the codex is much more grimdark. Like how they made etherals go from great leaders to possibly mind controlling them with phermones.
From what I understand they are each made by an AI in a vat as clones, these AI then monitor them for their entire lives.
The AI has even modified the Squat's souls so that they barely show up in the warp. (This might actually be a hugely important piece of lore related to the DaoT and what has been mentioned about AI maybe trying to defeat Chaos by killing all Sapient life.)
The AI's that control the Votann are slowing and dying however, as they weren't meant to function without stop for ten thousand years, and with their death, If they are infertile, the entire squat race will perhaps die out? Or if they are fertile they still may face partial or complete civilizational collapse as so much is tied up in the AI.
I think they may be more grimdark than the Tau already
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/06/30 13:59:27
Crimson wrote: Marine is about 1,5 times the height of the squat. If we assume the metric measure to be the correctish one, that makes squat almost four and half feet, which makes the marine sevenish feet. Which is the size primaris are roughly scaled to GW's current normal humans. They have never been scaled to eight feet, which would be ogryn sized.
Squats are a tad too large for my liking, I'd prefer them to be a bit smaller and GW scaling continues to be a bit wonky.
Except first born 7 feet and primaris custodian size aka 8 feet.
But the models are not scaled to that size. Do what you will with that, but that is absolutely incontestable mathematical truth. Can you for once explain what is the point of you bringing this up every time scale is mentioned?