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I've only very recently got back into warhammer, I knocked together this army list and was just wondeirng if people could give any advice:

HQ

Dante, banner, 215
Lemartes, 125
5 x Honour Guard, 2 x flamer, melta, melta bombs on 3, standard, 290

ELITE

5 x Scout, 4 x sniper rifle, 100
3 x Death company models

TROOPS

10 x SM Tac, flamer, missile, power fist, 230
10 x Assault Squad, power fist, melta bombs 275

FAST ATTACK

3 x Attack Bike Squadron, multi melta 150


HEAVY SUPPORT

Baal Predator, storm bolter, heavy bolter, extra armor 150

TOTAL 1545

++++++

My main concerns is a slight lack of av, points wise i'm contemplating dropping the honour guard for a 10 man assault marine squad, theyre the same point wise and I get double the wounds however I would then lose my banner +1 attacks bonus, my intention was to proxy to see how each fared and base my decision on that, if you guys have any tips though i'm all ears.

Thanks in advance

Your Assault Squad is actually a troops choice if you're using the BA codex/WD rules (which I'm assuming you are since you have a Baal PRedator, Dante and Lemartes) and your scouts are an elites choice. If you are using these rules, you can't take Telion AFAIK. Also in order to take Dante's banner you must first have a standard bearer in your Honor Guard unit, who exhanges his normal banner for Dante's. Your tac squad comes in at 205pts, not 225. Yous scout squad without Telios is 100pts. Your assault squad is 275pts. I'm not sure how you have a multimelta on a regular bike squad. I didn't check the points on the Honor Guard, so I'm not sure if they're correct or not.

What rules did you use to make this list? It doesn't follow either the Space Marines or Blood Angels codexes at all really. In fact it seems like you took units from both and put them together, which isn't how it works at all. Here is a link to the latest edition of the Blood Angels codex (in PDF form from the GW website) in case you were unaware that it has been released: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180159_Blood_Angels_Codex_and_FAQ_2007-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Please change your list accordingly so it is legal according to the rules and then we can work on improving it.

It was made up from a codex I got a hold of online, i'll be getting myself the book copy this friday though, was just a stop gap so I could play with ideas before buying any models.

In relation to dante's banner the box on the gw site showed the honour guard as having a standard, also they have the wargear option to add a standard for 10 pts, I just added the dante standard rather than the regular one.

I'm utterly confused as to the rules, they were never my forte "back in the day" however I am making an effort to bring myself up to speed, thank you for the hints i'll try and modify my post accordingly.

Also as per the codex I was looking at it allwoed the bike to have either hb or mm, for 50 points this seemed like a steal so i took 3. Edit: Attack bikes not regular bikes, my mistake, it's fixed now

I do apologise if I didn't post correctly however I will make every effort to rectify any mistakes.

P.S.
The codex I used was the one you linked, however I do remember cross referencing to the sm codex on a few things, the sm codex I used may have been an older version.

Also if you are playing BA where is your DC they are a steal.

Heh, thanks for the tip, didn't realise dc was free, duly added.

That should be the above post all fixed points wise, made a few tweaks? Sorry to be a pain but is it legal now?

is a 3 man dc squad viable? I realise it's free but other than 3 bolters what use is a 3 man dc unit? Don't see any way of squeezing the points to top the squad up unless I dropped some wargear off the other squads, although dropping p fists and such will leave my slightly weak av even weaker.

I'd drop the scouts for 3 more Death Company models (you can buy more DC at 30pts each... and never give them bolters give them BP/CCW and they're viscious in assault with urious charge, feel not pain, 3 attacks each or 4 on the charge, and rending). I'd also drop the Attack Bikes to get a Rhino for the Death Company and a Rhino for the tac squad. I'd probably switch Lemartes out for a regular Chaplain without a jump pack and have him ride with the DC, or switch him for Corbulo and have him ride with the DC.

Your Honor Guard unit is extremely expensive and only 5 models that is not hard to kill. I would shave points off of them by dropping the banner (they hit hard enough without it) and switching the standard bearer upgrade for a Sanguinary Priest upgrade. I'd also probably drop the special weapons from them. If you arne't dead set on keeping them, I'd drop the Honor Guard altogether and get a 5 man Vetern Assault squad instead. Give the VAS 2 Meltas and a powerfist and call it a day. Its a lot cheaper than the Honor Guard, and it is a mobile unit that can attack anything and do some damage. You have Meltas and a powerfist for tanks, you have lots of attacks coming from them against horde units and you have a poerfist against tough units.

Drop the storm bolter and EA on the Baal, it doesn't need them really. Its turret + sponsons is enough.

You might have enough points left over after that to get a second Baal Predator. If you do, then get it. If not, look at Land Speeders with heavy flamers and multimeltas.

Thanks for the advice, I was contemplating dropping the honour guard for another asm squad regardless, if I also drop weapons from the baal and drop the bikes I could replace them with a second baal, would that be a nice middle ground between what you suggested and what I currently have in my list?

Thanks again all for the advice, keep it coming, i'm quite intruiged by all your suggestions, when initially constructing the list it seemed very rigid. It was hard modifying the list to the playstyle I wanted while still still having the tools to cope with differing scenarios.

Also if I buy a DC boxset do I get the accessories to choose between bolter and bolt pistol? Pistol counts as a second cc weapon doesn't it? Allowing 1 extra cc attack per model if I understand the rules correctly.

I cant answer your question about the DC set. I bought mine off ebay. (saved me about 15 dollars) Also you are correct about the bolt pistol.

I know this isn't the place to ask as it probably belongs more in tactics but where do you guys draw the line between fielding an army of models you like, consistent to a theme. With fielding a force that maybe lacks the cool factor in your mind but being potentially more viable. With the tweaks i've mentioned is the above build still viable? I realise this is my lack of experience talking but i'd rather theorycraft than dump £200 into an army that just won't win games.

Just to elaborate on that I was attempting a fast paced assaulty, in your face type build. I realise with rhinos and other such things I could be just as mobile, it just doesn't do anything for me in terms of playstyle, I just don't think i'd enjoying playing a transport/ground troop type army. Although some of the options suggested could well be used to supplement my current build.

my BA army is basically all assult based. I have one 5 man tactical squad in a razor back everything thing else has jump packs. (DC, vet squad, HQ, assult marines) I dont have a solid list yet. I jusst proxy the models I dont have in frendly games.

To answer your other question. I play blood angles because they have drawn my attention since I saw them played long before i was able to start playing myself. My main army is DH and I like them because of their style and Fluff. Both armies arnt the most dominate in the 40k universe but they hold their own and it really just comes down to enjoying what you play. If you hate the style of army that you play but like the fluff then I would say go with another army. You will begin to hate to play because you arnt having fun playing.

HQ

Dante, banner, 205
Lemartes, 125
5 x Honour Guard, melta bombs on 3, standard, 290

ELITE

3 x Death company models

TROOPS

10 x SM Tac, flamer, missile, 205
10 x Assault Squad, power fist, melta bombs 275

FAST ATTACK

3 x Attack Bike Squadron, multi melta 150

HEAVY SUPPORT

Baal Predator, heavy bolter, 125
Baal Predator, heavy bolter, 125


TOTAL 1500

new list ftw

may drop the honour guard for a 10 man asm squad in its place, if I did that i'd probably drop the bikes too and maybe take a vet squad, this would also allow my dc squad to become 4 models woop!

Get a Veteran Assault Squad in place of the Honor Guard. I'd kit it like this:

5x Veteran Assault Squad: 2x Meltagun, Powerfist
195

That leaves you a full 95 points left over. If you switch Lemartes to a normal Chaplain on foot you can buy 2x Death Company models and then buy a Rhino for them.

If you don't want to lose Lemartes then you can get 2 more Deather Company and give the unit Jump Packs (90pts total), then give one of the Veteran Assault Squad models a meltabomb.

Also just fyi, your assault squad costs 280pts. If you drop the meltabomb its 275.

Also: Dante is 200 pts.

definitely get the extra DC, they are a huge boost to an army, and a huge pain for an opponent to work against. I'd keep lemartes, as for only 5 pts more than a JP chappy he has some nice extra stuff, and I'd buy the DC packs so that they can move themselves around easily.

I like the 2 baals and rhino; good mobile cover to keep your assault squads alive as they close with his lines. Vindicators also fill this role well, with the added benefit of having a demolisher cannon stationed within 24" when your assaut squads hit his lines. It really makes your opponent choose what to try to take out first, and none of the choices are good.

The playstyle here is rather straight forward: boost the OCE tanks ahead, pop smoke, and jump up+ run right behind the tanks on turn 1. Turn 2+ dogpile him with assault units, and shoot with the tanks that survived turn 1.

Just getting back into 40K. I am looking for a SM army and 1 of my choices would be BA. Any BA larmy listings would be useful. This posting and replies is very helpful. I was happy to see another player getting into BA. Thanks to all.

Thanks for all the tips guys, once I buy the models i'll proxy between the vets and honour guard and see which i like best.

It's just the vets being a good deal cheaper that certainly tempts me and it does quite effictively solve the 3 man dc problem.

I just love the idea of dante and his honour guad floating round with their banner, probably moreso in terms of how cool it would look on the table compared to how effective they actually are. The points savings for going vet is really starting to tempt me.

HQ

Dante, banner, 215
Lemartes, 125
5 x Honour Guard, standard, 270

ELITE

6 x Death company models, Rhino 130

TROOPS

10 x SM Tac, flamer, missile, Rhino 245
10 x Assault Squad, power fist, melta bombs 280

HEAVY SUPPORT

Baal Predator, heavy bolter, 125
Baal Predator, heavy bolter, 125


TOTAL 1515

If i drop the honour guard i'd get the other tacs a rhino and add some sort of misc wargear on to make up the points. I think i'm not a million miles off my final list now, I feel sorta sad about losing the attack bikes but scrutinising the build closely they didn't quite fit imo.

EDIT:
edited slightly, im now over points but do now have the extra rhinos, if we dropped a baal and then gave the honour guard/vets meltas and the rhinos storm bolters would that be a suitable trade off? I can't see any other way of shifting the points. So it would seem to me the only option I have is dropping the baal and spreading the points on extra firepower for other squads, or dropping the honor guard and using the spare points to buy melta guns for the vets replacing them.

Points of your DC squad are off. 3x Death Company are 90 points, then the Rhion is 40 base +10 for the storm bolter. I would drop the storm bolter and just leave it stock. Unit cost without the storm bolter comes to 130.

Your assault squad is also still 5pts off, it should be 280pts if you want the meltabomb.

I'd drop the meltabombs from the Honorguard and get 2 Meltaguns in the unit so you can shoot a transport, blow it up, then charge the unit that falls out. As it stands they have to charge the transport and kill it (with their meltabombs) then get charged by the unit that falls out, which is subpar.

I really wish we could find the points for a rhino for that tac squad. The rhinos are basically a shield for the assault squads and are good for minimzing your jump pack unit casualties before they make combat by cutting out line of sight. I know you really want to keep the Honorguard though, so I don't want to say drop them. Sine you really wnat to keep them though, I think it makes that extra rhino important to try and protect them from shooting. It really isn't hard to kill 5 marines and they are 1/5 of your army's points, so removing them early can really hurt you. You need to protect them and get them to grips with the oppoing army quickly.

What equipment does your honor guard have to make them so expensive?

This is what my honor guard looks like usually:

125 for 5 marines
25 more for jump packs
15 for one power weapon
25 for one power fist

total is 190.

Even with chapter banner, its

215

215 is really pricey for 5 MEQ, 250+ is very risky imo.


My primary concern is the lack of actual marines. 33 marines seems low for a 1500 point game.

Martel I think you're right, the honorguard are priced incorrectly. I just rant he points and they come out to 170 as he has them equipped, IF I assume they have jump packs on them.

Also try to fit the attack bikes back in. The listed army has a serious lack of ranged anti-AV capability. Multi-meltas are not my all-time favorites, but they seem to be the thing in 5th for anti-armor. Just be careful getting the bikes down to 12". (If you can)

no way, not in fifth ed. You need WAYYY more troops
unless you plan on using everything else to keep them alive. If your opponent wipes out those measly two units, you basically lose

i think i added jp at 25pts per model, rather than just a one off 25

That would do it.

Yes it would, and it also frees up a nice amount of points for you. I'd get a Rhino for the tac squad, 2 Meltaguns for the Honor Guard, a powerfist for the honorguard sergeant. This should put you at exactly 1500pts.

I think 2 Baals at 1500 pts is overkill. I might change one to a vindi. Same range bracket, more BOOM.

Even better, 2 baals AND a vindi. stick in 2 rhinos somehow and you have a wall of metal for them to chew thru as your assault marines lick their teeths.

HQ POINTS COST

Dante 200
Lemartes 125

TROOPS

10 x ASM power fist, melta bombs 280
10 x ASM power fist, melta bombs 280

ELITES

6 death company models /w jump packs 140

FAST ATTACK
3 x Attack Bike /w melta 150

HEAVY SUPPORT

Baal pred /w heavy bolter 125
Furioso Dreadnought 100
Razorback 50
Razorback 50

TOTAL 1500

slightly reworked list! Does this plug the holes? Slightly more av, infinitely more maneaveurable, slightly lacking on troops, possibly too armor reliant, suggestions?

I'm not sure you can take Razorbacks for the assault marines w/o removing their jump packs.

Actually, looking at it, assault squads can't be in razorbacks.

That means you have 100 pts to play with. Given your mobility, I'd consider a drop pod for the Dreadnought maybe.

What do the other BA players think?

Definitely a pod of the Furioso.

What do the Razorbacks belong to? The Assault squads can't take them unless they lose their jump packs.

To be honest, your previous version was way better than this version. Just switch the Honor Guard to their correct points, give them 2x Melta and a Powerfist, then buy a Rhino for the DC and you're set with a rather copmetetive list.

According to the BA codex, razorback is not even an option for assault marines. Stupid BA codex.