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Is "without number" really worth the 3 pts a model? What situations would call for this?

It guarantees you'll always have a scoring unit.

On top of that have you ever seen a demon prince get stuck in a tar-pit of termagaunts?
Then when they die or kill the DP, you just sacrifice them again to half-strength and then BAM! Fresh meat.

It's especially nice for claiming objectives near your own board edge, which you might have abandonned early in the game.

When your squads have the without number rule it makes attacking your ranged units very difficult. You can use them as a meat shield to protect more vulnerable units and to slow down attacking troops so that you can respond with a big beasty nid. Every time I have played against nids they have used this rule and it has annoyed me to no end so I say it's a good choice.

Centurian99 wrote:It guarantees you'll always have a scoring unit.

I think this is a over simplification of W/oN.

The issue arises from the following ruling in the INAT FAQ

TYR.28B.01 – Q: Can Tyranid units suffering from
instinctive behavior choose to not move without
lurking (so they can hold an objective)?
A: No, they must choose to either take an Instinctive
Behavior test or lurk [clarification].

As a result to ensure that your gaunts are still scoring you also need to have a synapse source near by. So either lacking a synapse creature near by or one at all you now no longer have that scoring unit. So your forced to either take a sub-optimal synapse creature (warriors or zoanathropes) or hold your tyrants in the backfield to help the gaunts score. Either option has draw backs as both lack the range to be effective in your backfield.

I am getting to the point where +3pts per model when I can buy one for 5pts doesn't seem worth it.

Brave Rifles

Think about it this way - throwing a big squad at the enemy, thats simply alot of wounds to deal with.

That squad dies or/and ties things up in CC then dies.

Gets to the egde. You roll for LD. If you fail can you go to lurk mode? Either way you fall-back to the nearest synapse unit. If youve got some ranged warriors or a flyant or backfield thrope then you'll get synapse soon enough to cap backfield objectives.

I think it's a good option and use it every time I play with them. As stated, for capturing objectives near your board edge. If worried about synapse, keep a 'thrope near the objective. Unless playing kill points, throw them at your opponent, either as a meat shield or just to wear them down. Then when they die bring them back to do the same thing. Something to remember though, opponents will leave a few left to ensure you don't get to recycle them. So just keep throwing the gaunts at them.

BraveRifles wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:It guarantees you'll always have a scoring unit.

I think this is a over simplification of W/oN.

The issue arises from the following ruling in the INAT FAQ

TYR.28B.01 – Q: Can Tyranid units suffering from
instinctive behavior choose to not move without
lurking (so they can hold an objective)?
A: No, they must choose to either take an Instinctive
Behavior test or lurk [clarification].

As a result to ensure that your gaunts are still scoring you also need to have a synapse source near by. So either lacking a synapse creature near by or one at all you now no longer have that scoring unit. So your forced to either take a sub-optimal synapse creature (warriors or zoanathropes) or hold your tyrants in the backfield to help the gaunts score. Either option has draw backs as both lack the range to be effective in your backfield.

I am getting to the point where +3pts per model when I can buy one for 5pts doesn't seem worth it.

Brave Rifles

That's only half of the story. You do not have to test for Instinctive Behavior the turn you come onto the board, i.e. a WoN brood can score on the turn it is recycled.

I find that it is worth it on one (and only one) squad of gaunts. Put them on your front line, plan on them advancing and dieing, and then use them to hold the rearmost objective.

I find that if you put WoN on too many units, your model count just gets too low and your opponent can reduced your gaunt screen too quickly leaving your genestealers/TMCs open to being shot without cover saves or being assaulted.

I personally love using it. A while ago now I faced a tough nob unit on foot (had knocked out their trukk) with a painboy. I had a unit of 8 gaunts that kept recycling every turn shooting and then assaulting. I perhaps killed 1 nob a turn and by the end of the game they had saved my home objective and wiped out the nobs (with a bit of help from a zoanthrope).

I dont find that giving too many gaunts WoN puts pressure on my numbers. They only have to screen for a couple of turns till the heavy hitters get there. Then if you have played sensibly recycle with some nearby synapse and use them to claim objectives in your deployment zone or push forward to the middle (if there are objectives to take that is).

It's good for giving me tons of Kill Poi---

Oops, I'm not a Nids experts. Disregard that.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:It's good for giving me tons of Kill Poi---

Oops, I'm not a Nids experts. Disregard that.

No it aint- may is not must, so the Tyranid player doesn't have to bring the gaunts back on if he doesn't want to.

With the 5th-ed requirement for scoring troops I have found WoN to be mandatory, and perhaps a little broken. I run a 1500pt zilla-lite army with three squads of gaunts to provide a cover save and assault screen- 15, 8 and 8 bods respectively. I can hapily sacrifice these mooks, happy in the knowledge that they will be right back next turn. Any army that needs the charge hates these guys because they will never let you charge my TMCs.

WoN allows you to spend the bare minimum on troops and yet still be guaranteed scoring units. Freakin love it.

Joy filled annecdote- 5 Nob bikers ended up beside my board edge after killing a squad of gaunts and a zoanthrope. Every turn the gaunts would come on and surround the bikers, in his turn the bikers would muller the gaunts- of noes, not my WoN gaunts! This went on for about three turns until a couple of TMCs could get over to finish em off. Good times.

It gives you a tactical flexibility that no other army in the game can equal. With a decent redundancy in your synapse web, you will always have a scoring unit, or a harassment tool when you know you'll need it.

I typically run two squads of 16 termagaunts, and two squads of eight WoN-spinegaunts. The termagaunts wedge themselves between the enemy and their intended destination and shoot until charged, while the spinegaunts make a run for objectives. Blast-template warrior squads fortify themselves within range of the gaunts, while lashwhip leapers tie down melee threats and attempt to buy time.

Season with melee, carnifexi and your choice of killy HQ, and you've got a recipe for a competitive 5th ed nid list.

Cool, thanks guys.

It's worth it, especially for apoc games... Having even a medium sized brood on a big table is wonderful. You give cover saves (like everyone else has said) and since you'll probably have someone guarding an objective in back who's synapse anyway (warriors especially) it works well. They do their job, get shot to pieces, then come back to claim an objective after everyone has moved upfield.

So what size does everyone recommend?

Sounds like around 8-16.

Well that would depend on the size of the game, but I find that if you want to hold an objective late game at the back field then 16-20 is best. Otherwise a smart player will just shoot them up in the last turn so you have no chance to come back on.