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I have been playing with this army against Chaos and Orcs for about a year. I've added elements that I've seen around the boards. I can never seem to have a decisive victory, just alot of close calls and draws. Basically it's a castling army. I Combat Squad the tacs and rush the razors up to run interferance for the vindis in the back field, the Assault troops and bikes flank and take on trouble units while the pod drops to handle unforseen situations or cause backfield problems. The Combat squads are set up in fire teams with the CC aspects in the Razors so that if disabled in thier rush forward to block an enemy rush your enemies encroaching vehicles (read LR or battlewagon here) have to go through Sgt's with melta bombs. The vindis set up and pummel incoming troops. While it is true I have only 4 scoring units possible I always seem to have my fire teams left since the enemy has to run a gauntlet to get through them.

Chapter Master with JP and Relic blade. with
10 assault troops/ sgt. 2x LC

9 sternguard/ combimeltas in a Pod with a Libarian (std. sterndrop powers, ie gate and force shield)

2 10 man Tac squads/ flamer, ML and Sgt. with Melta bombs both squads in a razorback. (see above for description)

3 attack bikes with MM

2 Vindi's

1 predator/ TL las and Hvy Bolter sponsons.

Has any played with this type of tactic and have any suggestions to make a victory more clear cut?

Chapter Master with JP and Relic blade. with
10 assault troops

I'd take Terminators instead of Assault Marines, since the latter are only mediocre in cc.

I ammended my assault squad, I currently have a Sgt. with 2x LC. I agree that assaults can be mediocre at CC. I feel the Sgt. with 2x LC and the CM/relic blade make up for this a bit. I was really looking for the mobility this squad gives me. I don't plan on hitting Termies with this squad but you bet your opponent will take notice of the it and try to bring a stronger unit to bear. Meanwhile the vindis in the back field are targeting. Is there a cheaper way of getting a hard hitting CC unit with moblility for marines?

Is there a cheaper way of getting a hard hitting CC unit with moblility for marines?

Not really. I'd take the squad as a counter-strike unit if the enemy threatens your front ranks, or as a fast moving unit to approach a shooty army along a flank.

If you want an HQ to run with the assault marines take a chaplian instead. The force commander costs waaaay to much and the only way you could make use of his orbital bomb is the whole squad has to stand still. Plus the chaplain lates you re-roll all your misses on the assault.

What kinds of lists do you play against most of the time? Ork bikers? Horde? What kind of Chaos lists?
Let's see, the Predator is currently multi-use so only half the weapons are useful for a given target.
May be better to drop a vindi and add a second predator and make one tri-lascannon for anti-vehicle and the other AC/HB for anti-infantry.
The chapter master is an extra 25pts for a one-shot, may miss pie plate.

I have tried the Sternguard in a drop pod and had a lot of problems with them because I would drop them in unsupported. They eat up one unit, but then get annihilated because they are sitting ducks. may need to change tactics with them so they are not getting shot up or assaulted. Possibly work the assault squad with the sternguard and shoot up an opponent unit, then have the assault squad assault to keep them from retaliating.
Hope that helps,
-Pav

This list has potential. Assualt marines are just meh in CC. Termies are even better for CC, but at a cost as I am sure you know. Good idea, take Pedro instead of the libby and walk them. also, take 2 combi-flamers on top of the meltas. Attack bikes are nice, but are easy to kill. you need atleast 1 more, possibly 2 more scoring units, hence i say pedro. like it was stated before, your predator is good against both tank killing and infantry killing. make it one or the other, not both. and combat squading you tacs in a kill point mission is BAD NEWS BEARS. I would say drop both vindies add a tac squad and maybe another predator. Hope this helps u.

Another angle would be to infiltrate CC scouts to support a vanguard strike. That would spice things up for your opponent! Vanilla assault marines are good for the price (just look how much BA ones cost!) but vanguards are so much better.

Definitely change the predator to an annihilator, or a destructor. Hybrid weapons in 40K = inefficient.

I prefer assault marines in general to terminators for CC, unless I'm going to spring for a LR. Slow = bad usually. Terminators on foot are just asking to get every spare small arm shot at them.

I can't decide if I like attack bikes with meltas or not. However, if you pick up the vanguards and scouts, and boost the bikes to that same side, that's serious disruption for your opponent.

I'd put the chapter master in with the sternguards (they are more likely to stand and shoot.) and put the librarian with the assault types for extra utility. Or ditch the chapter master and get a chaplain and put him with the assault team. Just try to make sure all given abilities of a squad synch up well.

I would drop the chapter master and the assault marines for

Cassius
10 Assault Terminators

Keep the tac squads as they are.

Up the sternguard to 10 with the librarian. That way you can combat squad them to shoot at 2 different vehicles after they deep strike. Drop the number of combi-meltas to 6.

Keep the vindi's if you like them.

This leaves you 100 points to do what you want to do. I like dakka preds, but you can flavor how you would like.

Interesting suggestions. Pavonis seems to understand this list pretty well. I play against Orks and Chaos. So that may explain my army structure a bit. Let me address some of my reasoning. First I pefer Assault marines to termie's, I've played deathwing and know how slow and fragile they can be (volumn of attacks and shooting is still a problem for termies). That being said, the movement of the assaults lets me use cover of the board more often instead of relying on my 2+. The bikes were put in as a result to have a quick responding unit to pop vehicles and pose an immediate threat. I found that orcs in alot of trucks get into me alot quicker than I would like. The sternguard in the pod are fragile and get anihilated 2 out of 3 games, but when they eliminate a squad of 5 deff copters or a demon prince with lash on the first turn, that really gets your enemies attention. They haven't been able to take their points yet and that was the reason I was possibly rethinking that unit. If I dropped the sternguard-libby I would have about 430 pts to work with. The vindi formation is the foundation of the army. Being able to set up in the back field and lob shells is just fun, the two vindi formation allows them to support each others in a close formation and allows a massive shelling (that even FNP nobs can't ignore) if people just try to run up. The pred is a sacrifice (hence the low points loadout) I usually feild on the other side of the table with a combat squad with launcher on a objective, out of range except for the las cannon. This makes the enemy come to me in about 2 rounds. I never combat squad in kill point missions, thats just insane. I probably will drop the pod/stern/libby, that in itself will drop 2 killpoints. I play against a lash player regularly, blocking LOS is a joke against a good player and its why I put the libby in to begin with, but I don't know if I can justify it when playing other armies, its a weak HQ choice other than the gate/hood advantages. One last thing. I feel characters are overpriced for the advantages. I normally don't use them.

You could try putting the sternguard x9 in a rhino with the libby and keep them closer to other units rather than drop them out in front to get whipped out.
I ran that last weekend in a tourney and it worked pretty well. I could move them where needed pretty quickly, hop out of the rhino, shower down a unit and then assault the reduced unit with my termies or assault squad.
They are too squishy to earn back their points in most cases. Some people suggest running 2-3 sternguard units because your opponents need to divide their focus. Though it's a ton of points to do something like that. heh.

eltharion72 wrote:One last thing. I feel characters are overpriced for the advantages. I normally don't use them.

There is absolutely no reason (other than fluff) not to take cassius if you are going to use a chaplain.

for a mere 25 more points you get:

T6
FNP
Master-Crafted Combi-Flamer w/hellfire rounds (wound on 2+)

one minor change i would do (might have been mentioned)
on the pred, take either all LCs or Autocan//HeavyBolters...
having both is kind of wasted potential for one or the other set of weapons each turn