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I know this is a Magic the Gathering term, but this is like a denial army list.

HQ:
Kor'sarro Khan [160pt]

Troops:
3x 10-man tactical squads w/ Meltagun/Missile Launcher & Rhino [210ptx3]
3x 10-man tactical squads w/ Flamer/Lascannon & Razorback [220ptx3]

Elite:
8-man Assault Terminators w/ LC's (Sgt has TH/SS) & Land Raider Crusader [530pt]

Tactics/Strategy:
For objective missions, combat squad all tac sqds and layer them 4 combat squads in front of one/two home objectives with the three meltagun combat squads in rhino's out front to pop enemy vehicles and make their troops footslog through my combat squads.
It would take my opponent a minimum of 5 turns to get through 4+ layers of marines. I could keep the tacs out of rhino's and have 6 layers in front of my objectives.
The Razorbacks and Land Raider contest other objectives and possibly outflank.
Khan and the assault termies get to attack on i5 with str5 and lightning claws. with Hit n Run if they need it.

For Kill Point missions, I keep the tac squads whole and pair tac squads together for everything they do so I have at least 20 marines assaulting an opponents unit.

Thoughts? Has anyone tried this? Is this Cheesy or a sound tacticc? Is it just too weak of a list for 2,000pts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
-Pav

Keep them clumped up, just the way Vindicators/Oblitorators like them.

You'd be suprised how quickly things die when placed together.

Plus with tank shock, drop pods, and skimmers, things can move through your waves of marines.

I would keep them close enough together to prevent Deepstrikes, but far enough away for pie plates to get too many in a single blast.
I was also hoping the lead 3 rhino's would prevent tank shock from rolling through my troops so easily.

Pretty much any fast army (skmmiers, bikes, etc) will out manuver your blockers. Also any army that has lots of big guns will have a field day with all the guys the shoot at. I think you should drop 2 squads of marines and take some things like fast attack (bikes or assault marines) and some support tanks ( I prefer AC, HB preds).

I see what you're saying. It would really be tough to protect an objective with 4 layers from all angles. You'd have to be back in corners with flank denial and terrain to prevent avenues of attack.
I would also need to focus my ML and lascannons on fast attack vehicles as the top target priority.

So the question remains, is this cheezy? Would I be TFG by doing something like that?

No, you'd be easy win.

That is an impressive amount of marines, but tactical marines have limitations. If your tactical squads are forced to fire at a tank or MC, all that bolter fire is probably going to be wasted. In addition, tactical squads are quite poor in HTH for the points. One killer HTH squad to cover the board in a 2000pt game seems light. Plus, who is your opponent? If its either kind of Eldar, leave the LR at home.

We had over 24 players at a FLGS tourney last weekend and pretty much every army was accounted for, including one Eldar.

All opponents then....... that's rough. Being a BA player, I covet all the vanilla marine schemes to ignore cover. It would be very hard for me NOT to have at least one whirlwind, thunderfire cannon and sternguard squad in my army.

Analyzing the roughest armies... ork horde, ork bikers, chaos marines and chaos demons. I don't see how having a ton of tactical marines helps you defeat these armies. Maybe I'm just too used to being an aggressive marine army.

Martel732 wrote:Analyzing the roughest armies... ork horde, ork bikers, chaos marines and chaos demons. I don't see how having a ton of tactical marines helps you defeat these armies.

Okay, you lost me on that statement. How would having a lot of basic Tac Marines
NOT help him face an Ork horde or even Ork bikers, for instance?

That's a TON of massed bolter fire backed up by assorted heavy or assault weapons
and that's going to mow down a LOT of orks with our crappy armour saves, even with
some help from cover terrain.

I believe it will be difficult to position all these marines such that the forward most marines do not grant the orks, for example, a cover save.

Furthermore a saavy ork player SHOULD be able to IN MOST CASES make the tac marines either move up to double tap (negative heavy weapons) or skip over the double tap range completely. (6" move + 1D6" (WAAGH) + 6" charge) Given the cost of an ork vs the cost of a tac marine, the marines will never do enough shooting damage before they are swamped.

Don't get me started on the mathhammer of tac marines shooting at nob bikerz. Not trying to sound sour, but I think the nob bikerz as written are a bit too elite for an ork unit. But that's not what this thread is about.

At 2000 points, I'd definitely have vanguards as well. Their ability to deep strike and ASSAULT is way cool. It will make a squad of lootas or oblits very unhappy.

Analyzing the roughest armies... ork horde, ork bikers, chaos marines and chaos demons. I don't see how having a ton of tactical marines helps you defeat these armies. Maybe I'm just too used to being an aggressive marine army.

Well if your playing BA then yes I guess what your saying would be correct for that last line in the quote. Next, I still dont understand and maybe I will never understand why people think these armies are the hardest to beat.

Back on topic though,

I would look at removing at least one tactical squad so that you can get some type of flanking unit. Maybe even some type of drop unit as this will greatly support your forward march. It just seems your list is so one sided and unable to adjust if somebody was able to counter your single tactic.

Tarval wrote:

Analyzing the roughest armies... ork horde, ork bikers, chaos marines and chaos demons. I don't see how having a ton of tactical marines helps you defeat these armies. Maybe I'm just too used to being an aggressive marine army.

Well if your playing BA then yes I guess what your saying would be correct for that last line in the quote. Next, I still dont understand and maybe I will never understand why people think these armies are the hardest to beat.

I think the Orks and chaos marines just have really effective troops and the chaos demons are very strong in HTH and have the bizarre deployment. (And are all totally fearless with invulnerable saves)

Back on topic though,

I would look at removing at least one tactical squad so that you can get some type of flanking unit. Maybe even some type of drop unit as this will greatly support your forward march. It just seems your list is so one sided and unable to adjust if somebody was able to counter your single tactic.

Like those vanguards I was just talking about. They are better than any HTH unit in my BA.

Aardboy77 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Analyzing the roughest armies... ork horde, ork bikers, chaos marines and chaos demons. I don't see how having a ton of tactical marines helps you defeat these armies.

Okay, you lost me on that statement. How would having a lot of basic Tac Marines
NOT help him face an Ork horde or even Ork bikers, for instance?

That's a TON of massed bolter fire backed up by assorted heavy or assault weapons
and that's going to mow down a LOT of orks with our crappy armour saves, even with
some help from cover terrain.

True, but what you should know then, is bolter is 24 inch single shot, with 12 inch rapid fire. once an orc gets that close, it is bye bye marines. i know from playing orcs. What he needs is some deve squads. maybe 2 plasma cannon, 2 heavy bolter. something to have range on the orcs while they are advanceing.

6 squads of tacs are nice, but you need some support to it also. Preds would be nice, so would maybe a Land Speeder or 3. Just Tacs won't do the trick. Maybe 2 WW or something along those lines. If you don't have a lot of money, try adding some dreads with drop pods. that would help you out a lot. If khan is what you want to do, go with him on a bike, with a command squad for HtH. Destroy smaller units that way and get out of combat faster. I think that will help your list out a lot.

I have observed whirlwinds and thunderfires gutting ork horde armies at the store I play at. These systems do nothing to nob bikerz, however.

Where were the lootas? Fighting vanguards that arrived via drop pod. The vanguards actually ended up completely disrupting most of the ork player's support. The tac marines were just there to hold quarters and pick on mobs down to 15 or fewer orks.

pavonis wrote:I know this is a Magic the Gathering term, but this is like a denial army list.

HQ:
Kor'sarro Khan [160pt]

Troops:
3x 10-man tactical squads w/ Meltagun/Missile Launcher & Rhino [210ptx3]
3x 10-man tactical squads w/ Flamer/Lascannon & Razorback [220ptx3]

Elite:
8-man Assault Terminators w/ LC's (Sgt has TH/SS) & Land Raider Crusader [530pt]

For a 2k army this may be under powered. Your plan is to outflank, correct? What happens when you don't get reserves to show at same time and they show on opposite flanks?

There are 3 missile launchers and 3 flamers in the tac squads to help with horde. And 3 lascannons and 3 meltaguns for vehicles and nob bikers as well as the termie squad with khan (with furious charge).
I am not planning to outflank much, possible the razorbacks or the land raider if favorable. I am just trying to implement a tactic that there are just too many units for my opponent to wade through all of them in 5-6 turns to get to my objectives. Hopefully enough of a deterant to keep them from trying and focus on the middle objectives, which are easier to just contest.

Flamers on foot = shaky.

One thunderfire can kill more orks than three missile launchers on average. Far more if they are in cover.

Overall, I think this philosophy would work much better with the IG. Marines need to blend shooty, mobile, and CC. Just my 2 cents.

@2000 pts Orcs can drop 200+ figs.

If you are in flamer range it's over with. You need more ranged guns. Example Dev sqd with 4 HB's and razorback with Twin HB.

Consider attack bikes. MM for anti tank. HB for anti horde.

You bunch up your tacticals and you will be multicharged and wiped out. Not to mention blast markered to death.