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If you aim a Drop Pod to Land within 1" of (or in the middle of) a Unit and it rolls a hit, does this trigger Deep Strike Mishap or does the Pods Special Rules move it to safety?

Since the drop pod only reduces the scatter , if you targeted (or aim for with in 1") If you hit you would have a deep strike mishap.

You can't place a model with in one inch of another model when trying to place for deep strike; just as if you cannot place a deep striking model "on top" of another one.

Hollismason wrote:You can't place a model with in one inch of another model when trying to place for deep strike; just as if you cannot place a deep striking model "on top" of another one.

Actually, you can. Its how people use monoliths to Hit an Objective.

@SeattleDV8: Thanks for that. That's what I suspected.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:"...Actually, you can. Its how people use monoliths to Hit an Objective..."

"actually" isn't the term I would use here - you know this subject is being discussed in another thread and there is fair grounds on both sides of the issue whether you can or cannot place models on top of other models.

Its answered by this simple question.

What happens to the models underneath?

Their paint gets scuffed?

Democratus wrote:Their paint gets scuffed?

I'm fairly sure he's right, though I don't have the page number in the BRB for that rule.

Hollismason wrote:Its answered by this simple question.

What happens to the models underneath?

If a Monolih hits? They are moved out the way, as per the Monoloth Special Rules.

If a Drop Pod Hits, It would roll a Deep Strike Misshap. The Models Underneath are unaffected.

Nothing happens to the models underneath. Either there is scatter, or a mishap; either way works out.

...but you can't actually AIM the Drop pod to land there. You have to AIM it 1" or more away from a unit... and, if it scatters, it simply stops 1" away from the enemy unit.

The scenario proposed by the OP simply cannot happen.


Eric

If I had a drop pod list I would invent a house rule that says all models underneath suffer tank shock or die!!

When you play in my house, your models paint gets scuffed!!

MagickalMemories wrote:...but you can't actually AIM the Drop pod to land there. You have to AIM it 1" or more away from a unit... and, if it scatters, it simply stops 1" away from the enemy unit.

The scenario proposed by the OP simply cannot happen.


Eric

Proof Please? It can and Does happen.

Rulebook, page 95, Deep Strike.

"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table...."

Rulebook, page 11, Models in the way.

"A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model...."

Steelmage99 wrote:Rulebook, page 95, Deep Strike.

"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table...."

Rulebook, page 11, Models in the way.

"A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model...."

The model isn't actually on the table until the deep strike is resolved? If it was then if a Model who aimed at difficult terrain scattered onto clear terrain they would have to make a Dangerous terrain test. Since anyone with a Brain will say they do not take it, I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:...but you can't actually AIM the Drop pod to land there. You have to AIM it 1" or more away from a unit... and, if it scatters, it simply stops 1" away from the enemy unit.

The scenario proposed by the OP simply cannot happen.


Eric

Proof Please? It can and Does happen.

While I don't have a page #, as I don't carry my books to work with me, I can cite the rules that state that you can't move your models within 1" of mine, unless assaulting, or the depstriking rules 9as someone's already done) or point you towards the Drop Pod rules.

Please, show me where in the rules you ARE allowed to break those rules as, due to WH40K's restrictive rules, you can't break any rule unless another rule specifcally allows it.

Eric

Waaaaaaagh wrote:The model isn't actually on the table until the deep strike is resolved? If it was then if a Model who aimed at difficult terrain scattered onto clear terrain they would have to make a Dangerous terrain test. Since anyone with a Brain will say they do not take it, I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?

Have you read the deepstrike rules prior to posting this?

First, you place the model, THEN you roll for scatter.

Since you can't place a model on top of another, that action is disallowed. The example you give does not BREAK any rules.

1) You are allowed to place the model into difficult terrain.
2) You do roll to scatter
3) The model IS allowed to land in "clear terrain."

You are STILL, however, placing the model in the clear terrain.

By "aiming" for models and following the given set of instructions for deep striking, you're saying that you can do the following:

1) Place the model on top of an enemy unit
2) Roll to scatter
3) Land wherever the model ends up (barring, I presume, impassable terrain)

Does that break any rules? If the answer is, "yes," you have to show where you're specifically ALLOWED to do it, or you can't. It doesn't matter what it is supposed to represent. It only matters that you follow the Rules As Written (RAW).

Otherwise, ANYTHING that can deepstrike can do what you propose and hope for a scatter... Which, of course, is also against the rules.

Eric

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:"...I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?.."

Because the rule states first place the model on the table... Duh !

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Rulebook, page 95, Deep Strike.

"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table...."

Rulebook, page 11, Models in the way.

"A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model...."

The model isn't actually on the table until the deep strike is resolved? If it was then if a Model who aimed at difficult terrain scattered onto clear terrain they would have to make a Dangerous terrain test. Since anyone with a Brain will say they do not take it, I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?

Have you even read the rules for Deep Striking?

Anyway they are on page....let's see...*looks up*...page 95.
The relevant wording is....grumble, grumble....ah, heck, I forgot......nevermind. I quoted it right up there....silly me.

What were you saying again?

toxic_wisdom wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:"...I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?.."

Because the rule states first place the model on the table... Duh !

Pardon? That sentence is not written by me. Please correct the missquote, please.

Steelmage99 wrote:

toxic_wisdom wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:"...I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?.."

Because the rule states first place the model on the table... Duh !

Pardon? That sentence is not written by me. Please correct the missquote, please.

Sorry about that - accidentally removed one of the double quote tags...

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:"...The model isn't actually on the table until the deep strike is resolved? If it was then if a Model who aimed at difficult terrain scattered onto clear terrain they would have to make a Dangerous terrain test. Since anyone with a Brain will say they do not take it, I don't see why you would think the model is on the table until the deep strike scatter has been rolled?.."

Those of us with brains know the reason is because models take tests when starting, moving through, or ending in difficult ( dangerous ) terrain. The slight exception to this is skimmers ( hint.. hint.. Monolith.. ) take the test when they begin or end their movement ( ignore moving through )...

...disregarding tank shock = and now getting back on topic, we have a very clear rule on page 11 - Models In The Way : a model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model...

Any attempt to place a model from Reserves - Deep Strike within the parameters described above has violated the rule and as such cannot be done ( deep striking models count as moving ).

...by placing a deep strike model on top of other models, you are declaring it is going to end its movement at that point - which brings us back again to the rule on page 11: ...a model may not move within one inch of an enemy model unless assaulting...

...now if a unit has some special rule that would trump this then all is well-n-good. I can't comment on the exact rule for the Drop Pod but I can add my two cents in regarding the Monolith. It has a rule that explains what happens IF it lands on other models ( move them aside to make room for it ). Notice IF meaning there are other possibilities - like landing safely on a legally designated point. The Monolith DOES have a rule that trumps the Mishap Rule, but it DOES NOT have a rule that trumps the Models In The Way Rule.

...and just to put the nail in the coffin of this topic, the rule on page 11 also states ...a model cannot move so that it touches an enemy model during the Movement or Shooting phases... Hhmmm - the models are clearly touching if they are stacked on top of each other, and Deep Strike happens in the Movement phase ( toxic wisdom takes out hammer and swings )...

The prohibition on moving within 1" of an enemy model has very little to do with why a model cannot deep strike on top of another model.

The rulebook references you're looking for are:
Deep striking (page 95): First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive ...
Impassible Terrain (pg 14): Models may not be placed in impassible terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule ... granting them an exception ... or both players agree to it.
Guidelines on impassible terrain (page 13): Remember that other models, friends and enemies, also count as impassible terrain.

So, the answer to the question "Can you deep strike on top of another unit?" is "If your opponent lets you," but I wouldn't count on it. It might be legal to place your deep striking model within 1" of an enemy model depending on how you agree to interpret the 'cannot move within 1"' statement, but the deep strike mishap rules will still take care of whether the final position is within 1".

solkan wrote:The prohibition on moving within 1" of an enemy model has very little to do with why a model cannot deep strike on top of another model.

The rulebook references you're looking for are:

"...Impassible Terrain (pg 14): Models may not be placed in impassible terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule ... granting them an exception ... or both players agree to it...Guidelines on impassible terrain (page 13): Remember that other models, friends and enemies, also count as impassible terrain..."

Actually the path you're taking has even less to do with this topic - in consideration of the Monolith ( and other skimmers ) at least: page 71 - a skimmer can even end its move over impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the model on top of it.

I'm pretty sure the Monolith can balance itself on top of a unit of infantry, so that brings us back to the rule preventing models moving ... enemy models.

If you are playing that "placing the model" is actual part of the movement (instead of just a representation) then are you consistant? When it scatters, does it take tests for terrain? Can it go through enemy units? etc.

toxic_wisdom wrote:Those of us with brains know the reason is...

Let's keep this free on insults, please. It's one thing to show frustration. I'm guilty of that on occasion myself. There's no reason to outright insult someone, though... even if the ARE wrong.

solkan wrote:The prohibition on moving within 1" of an enemy model has very little to do with why a model cannot deep strike on top of another model.

The rulebook references you're looking for are:
Deep striking (page 95): First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive ...
Impassible Terrain (pg 14): Models may not be placed in impassible terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule ... granting them an exception ... or both players agree to it.
Guidelines on impassible terrain (page 13): Remember that other models, friends and enemies, also count as impassible terrain.

So, the answer to the question "Can you deep strike on top of another unit?" is "If your opponent lets you," but I wouldn't count on it. It might be legal to place your deep striking model within 1" of an enemy model depending on how you agree to interpret the 'cannot move within 1"' statement, but the deep strike mishap rules will still take care of whether the final position is within 1".

Badda bing!
We have a winner.
Give that man a ceee-gar.

coredump wrote:If you are playing that "placing the model" is actual part of the movement (instead of just a representation) then are you consistant? When it scatters, does it take tests for terrain? Can it go through enemy units? etc.

Personally, I'm not saying that placing the model is part of the MOVEMENT. I'm saying that it's part of the Deepstrike process.

Eric