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K, I'm torn between these two lists. The first is the list I posted recently and got some feedback on and the second is a slight modification but one I think that could make the difference. I'll explain the differences and why they are there after the lists. Help me decide which list is "the one".

First List:

HQ

Brother Captain-91
Psycannon

Elite

4xGKT's-254
Psycannon, BC w/Psycannon

4xGKT's-254
Psycannon, BC w/Psycannon

Troop

8xGK's-225

8xGK's-225

8xGK's-225

6xGK's-226
2xPsycannons, Targeter

Heavy Support

Landraider-250

Landraider-250

2000pts. on the nose.

Second List:

HQ

Brother-Captain w/Terminator Retinue-254
Psycannon (BC), 3xGKT's, Psycannon (Squad)

Elite

4xGKT's-254
Psycannon (BC), Psycannon (Squad)

Troops

8xGK's-227
Targeter, Frag Grenades

8xGK's-227
Targeter, Frag Grenades

8xGK's-227
Targeter, Frag Grenades

5xGK's-201
2xPsycannons, Targter

Heavy Support

Landraider-250

Landraider-250

Dreadnought-110
Assault Cannon, DCCW

Again 2000 on the nose


Alright, first I lose a terminator, psycannon, and a PAGK from the first list in exchange for Targeters and Frag Grenades on all the troop units as well a gaining a Dreadnought. Now shot wise i come out ahead. Combat wise I lose a St6 power weapon attack and 2 St6 non-power weapon attacks. The second list I feel is actually more flexible than the first based on the fact that every unit that is chancy on range is allowed to check range before deciding who and what to shoot at. Adding the frag grenades really helps for digging those units out of cover which will be helpful too. So what do you guys think? Is the dreadnought, targeters, and frag grenades worth dropping the other BC w/psycannon and PAGK? Opinions would be welcome!

31 views and no comment? Help a buddy out

I might *be* at the socal slaughter...I can't help you too much!

Targeters and frag grenades are great for the cost (6 whole points, though one dude with frag grenades doesn't seem like much of a combat changer). I think it comes down to whether or not you think the dread will live more than a couple turns, or if his dying will keep a landraider alive. I think there may be some str 6-8 weapons out there that will be happy to see that you gave them a target that they otherwise wouldn't have had in the first two turns. You're not gaining that many shots, and they squads gaining targeters aren't getting that much out of it (stormbolter range is not real safe with the shrouding in my experience, so I don't know how much it will really help to try to dance at 24")

I like where the first list is headed

In the first list, I'd say take points away from the GK and squeeze a third LR if you have it.

If you don't have a third LR the first list is still very viable IMO

Dreads are not really worth it in DH armies because they take up a spot for a LR. Would you rather have another 14AV vehicle that has TWO TL lascans or have a 12AV with one? It's just more firepower that you can also support your termies with. If they come rollin' at you with tons of AP2 weapons, you're gonna be glad you took a third Transport for those S6 Power weapons to stay safe in (if only for a turn, you can try to get them close as possible)
And, in the new FAQ, GK LR have Machine spirit with assault ramps, keep that in mind as well when you want to replace their Force chart spot with a dreadnaught.

I like the second list. Pretty much any weapon that will be used to kill a dread is something they would rather shoot at a GK or LR.

I'd (personally) try to get some Incinerators in there.

@lambadomy

The targeters aren't for dancing at 24" they are for making sure i've got the range on whatever unit i'm attempting to shoot. No more wasted shots when I choose the wrong squad. As for the frag grenades the extra 3 st6 power weapon attacks could definitely help blunt elite combat units That's a good point about the Dread and the reason i'm torn between the lists.

@Nenya97

I'm actually firmly against dropping any GK's to squeeze in another Landraider. The reason is that I need all the scoring troops i can manage. And the Landraiders for me aren't assault delivery systems. The terminators are for long ranged fire support that can be nasty in combat when the enemy gets to me. If it's a shooty army they move up screened by the LR's until they get close enough to assault while heavily limiting the incoming fire power from AP2 weapons.

@John0spencer

That's what's torn me between the lists. The idea that the dread is actually more survivable than a BC. Considering that bolters (which thanks to the wound allocation system) can kill the BC in any squad he joins and that if he's on his own he's only got a 5+Inv while the dread is immune to low stregth weapons and will most likely have a 4+ Cover save since he'll be using the LR's as moving cover.

On incinerators there would be one on the dread if i had the points. I'm not a fan of putting them on other troops since the psycannon and basic weapons are so much better as far as all game usefulness goes.

Great feedback guys. Keep it coming! 2-1 in favor of the first list so far!

I see where you are coming from and that is true, having a dread can be good i suppose but try fitting a lascannon on it

I think if you can fit a lascannon on the dread, go with the dread list (no, I have no idea what you would remove, other than a GK). Otherwise I don't think it gives you anything special worth giving up more bodies for. I just don't see it living very long and I don't see the assault cannon doing anything particularly exciting. More armor is nice, sure, but AV 12 amongst AV 14 to me sticks out like a sore thumb, and will cost you in KP missions.